classical pieces - and (relatively) easy classical pieces - with or without a flamenco flavor (Full Version)

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joevidetto@gmail.com -> classical pieces - and (relatively) easy classical pieces - with or without a flamenco flavor (Nov. 23 2023 17:41:34)

Hi all,

I've been away from the Foro for a while - but I'm back !!! - partially because I recently retired and will finally have, hopefully, a lot more time to play.

I realize this is a flamenco forum - but I'm guessing that quite a few of you have played, or continue to play, some classical pieces, if nothing more for the reason that both forms use nylon strings.

I have a vision of playing out with a mix of music, including some pieces from both forms.

If you have dappled with classical music, please share the names of pieces you have learned - and even videos if you have them : )

Also - could you recommend any classical pieces you have learned that are relatively easier - e.g. more 'bang for the buck' in terms of pleasing an audience but not taking a lifetime to learn ?

I'll share a few I am working on from both categories - I have a transcribed version of the Allemande from Bach's 3rd cello suite, and the piece really knocks me out - started working on in my late teens. At times I have been able to play it with the music in front of me - but it quickly disappears without practice. That is a beautiful sounding piece and I'm sure a crowd- pleaser (for the interested crowd that it) - but clearly a low reward for the amount of effort to learn it. Another - Romanza, is pretty easy and also sounds good - relatively low practicing effort for a few minutes of decent sounding reportoire. Leyenda - which is probably like "Stairway to Heaven" in terms of being played out for people familiar with it - is somewhere in between maybe ?

As always - TIA




rombsix -> RE: classical pieces - and (relatively) easy classical pieces - with or without a flamenco flavor (Nov. 23 2023 23:04:15)







Ricardo -> RE: classical pieces - and (relatively) easy classical pieces - with or without a flamenco flavor (Nov. 24 2023 14:24:12)

I have shared several Bach pieces on foro over the years, including Ciaccona. My all time favorite remains this prelude for some reason, I have dropped tuning to Eb to play along with Glen Gould:



But lately I have been down the rabbit hole of vihuela tablature from primary sources. Once you get used to reading it (there are differing styles, but mainly upside down French tab) it is pretty amazing stuff, and I realize way more in line with flamenco tendencies than baroque guitar stuff…especially with the Rondeña tuning similarities. Narvaez, Mudarra, and Fuenllana are the main ones I have been exploring (Fuenllana uses literal Rondeña tuning and Narvaez has some literal phrases from Rondeña a la Montoya original).









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Ricardo -> RE: classical pieces - and (relatively) easy classical pieces - with or without a flamenco flavor (Nov. 24 2023 14:51:48)

That thing above is showing a very literal correspondence between how we think of Rondeña, or conceive of the song form on the guitar neck, relative to tuning, scale, and final cadence (C#major), the only difference is the 6th string (or course of double strings) is kept at E, and Montoya dropped it to D. It is such an unlikely coincidence that I have to suspect only two possibilities, 1. Montoya was exposed to this tuning around 1920 by Pujol or his students that had recently discovered the tabs thanks to Pedrell, and VERY quickly adopted the key and formal structure of unique chord voicings to accompanying cante (recorded 1928). Or, 2. This type of tuning and key had survived in Spain amongst gypsies, illiterate, who would retune guitars this way and preserve this key and concept, since the renaissance. Oddly, I find this more likely than the former, as a player and friend of gitanos…however historians would probably disagree and assume 1. Has to be the reason.

As to drop D being an issue, Fuenllana uses both the interesting key of C#Phrygian (mode 4 as it would have been) as Narvaez, in several pieces, and also the Drop D appears in 5 pieces (though in D major).





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orsonw -> RE: classical pieces - and (relatively) easy classical pieces - with or without a flamenco flavor (Nov. 24 2023 15:12:41)

I play no classical. But here's a Caño Roto flamenco, Israel Cerreduela, playing Bach.





Ricardo -> RE: classical pieces - and (relatively) easy classical pieces - with or without a flamenco flavor (Nov. 24 2023 15:30:03)

Nice! He or someone that taught him or transcribed it to A minor from C minor (Bach himself put it in Am for Lute). Here is the score:





Richard Jernigan -> RE: classical pieces - and (relatively) easy classical pieces - with or without a flamenco flavor (Nov. 24 2023 17:00:24)

Re your idea that rondeña tuning--perhaps without the dropped D--survived from the Renaissance among gitanos:

I don't know where to start looking for this anecdote, but I remember reading it in the last year or so. Montoya, having tuned his guitar a la rondeña, handed it to another well known flamenco guitarist, who was, according to Montoya "unable to play a single note."

So according to Montoya there was at least one other professional flamenco who was unfamiliar with the tuning, and Montoya was pretty confident that he would be.

RNJ




Ricardo -> RE: classical pieces - and (relatively) easy classical pieces - with or without a flamenco flavor (Nov. 24 2023 18:45:55)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Jernigan

Re your idea that rondeña tuning--perhaps without the dropped D--survived from the Renaissance among gitanos:

I don't know where to start looking for this anecdote, but I remember reading it in the last year or so. Montoya, having tuned his guitar a la rondeña, handed it to another well known flamenco guitarist, who was, according to Montoya "unable to play a single note."

So according to Montoya there was at least one other professional flamenco who was unfamiliar with the tuning, and Montoya was pretty confident that he would be.
6
RNJ


The reason being the third string being F# instead of G….that renders the internal design of the instrument as if everything has moved UP a set of strings from normal, or a new treble string was added below the first string, a 4th higher. That means the conceptual key of “Taranta” simply moves UP a physical set of strings, and one can play as normal. That is the relationship between the two toques anyway, basically. The drop D 6th is something most guitar players should have already been familiar with (producing a 5th between strings 6 and 5). This would all beg the question, why would this not facilitate the KEY center of D instead? The idea of tuning this way THEN conceiving yourself in the key of C# is quite random or too specific a function if this was a random discovery by montoya. I am sure there are even today, SOME flamenco players out there that can play traditional flamenco just fine, perhaps for cante or baile even, who NEVER messed with Rondeña, drop D, nor any other altered tunings flamencos have used since. So that type of anecdote needs more qualifiers….who was it, where were they from, family lineage, etc., in order to disqualify the possibility that Montoya was NOT the first and only to use it in 1928.




gemelo -> RE: classical pieces - and (relatively) easy classical pieces - with or without a flamenco flavor (Nov. 25 2023 6:10:48)

Capricho Arabe




Brendan -> RE: classical pieces - and (relatively) easy classical pieces - with or without a flamenco flavor (Nov. 25 2023 10:31:03)

I found Tango en Skai to be relatively easy and quick to learn. It’s full of flashy stuff but the left hand is easy and there are no real traps for the right hand either. Pretty good bang for buck.




Piwin -> RE: classical pieces - and (relatively) easy classical pieces - with or without a flamenco flavor (Nov. 25 2023 12:45:10)

Up there with Leyenda and Romanza:





kitarist -> RE: classical pieces - and (relatively) easy classical pieces - with or without a flamenco flavor (Nov. 25 2023 17:57:06)

Heitor Villa lobos Choros No.1




Also his Prelude No. 5





joevidetto@gmail.com -> RE: classical pieces - and (relatively) easy classical pieces - with or without a flamenco flavor (Nov. 25 2023 18:59:59)

Thanks for sharing - absolutely beautiful pieces - and all of you are either amazing or exceptionally amazing players !!!




Piwin -> RE: classical pieces - and (relatively) easy classical pieces - with or without a flamenco flavor (Nov. 25 2023 19:15:59)

quote:

exceptionally amazing players


That's why I picked a tremolo piece: with tremolo it's easier to trick people into believing you're better than you actually are! [8D]




BarkellWH -> RE: classical pieces - and (relatively) easy classical pieces - with or without a flamenco flavor (Nov. 25 2023 20:17:24)

quote:

Up there with Leyenda and Romanza [referring to Julian Bream playing "Recuerdos de la Alhambra]


Less well-known than Tarrega's "Recuerdos de la Alhambra" but just as beautiful in its composition and use of the tremolo is Agustin Barrios's "Una Limosna por el Amor de Dios" (An Alms for the love of God). Barrios was born in Paraguay in 1885, performed all over the world, and died in El Salvador in 1944. Many of his pieces are really beautiful, including another one that is often performed, "La Catedral."

Bill




devilhand -> RE: classical pieces - and (relatively) easy classical pieces - with or without a flamenco flavor (Nov. 26 2023 14:56:09)

Music on classical guitar can be boring. Try this instead.





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