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Notice that Ricardo has chosen to omit P*t*n*r*s. Even writing the word may be too much for him !

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Can’t believe this palo is not on your list.

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Notice that Ricardo has chosen to omit P*t*n*r*s. Even writing the word may be too much for him !

Argh! Now you've done it!

Corrected the spelling for you.
("The Scottish Play" of flamenco. Perhaps it might be safer to refer to it as The Scottish Palo. That should cause enough confusion to avert any disaster.)

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Or are you just rubbing in the fact that you know how to embed video and I don't?

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Are these examples of each palo that will prove all palos are to be liked by all members? Ie to win any doubters over?

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the main reason for not liking something that is a beautiful if not important (somehow to someone) creation within the genre, is due to lack of information (ignorance) about the form itself. Thus I provide a starting point, rather than blind-due-to-whatever-first-impressions predilections that people have, from which they might consider to question “why would someone like this form that I simply don’t??” Perhaps an education in the subject will change minds (it has happened to me too many times).

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To be honest the main reason I avoid siguiriyas is that I don't really feel (rightly or wrongly)
That I am worthy of it. Like it's too deep for a Englishman from London with middling Spanish to really get.

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To be honest the main reason I avoid siguiriyas is that I don't really feel (rightly or wrongly)
That I am worthy of it. Like it's too deep for a Englishman from London with middling Spanish to really get.

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ORIGINAL: JasonM

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To be honest the main reason I avoid siguiriyas is that I don't really feel (rightly or wrongly)
That I am worthy of it. Like it's too deep for a Englishman from London with middling Spanish to really get.

[:D] Try listening to it in the car when your in a bad mood

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How can anyone who’s serious about flamenco vote against any of the Big Four Palos? Solea, Buleria, Algeria, Siguiriya?

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ORIGINAL: Ricardo

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How can anyone who’s serious about flamenco vote against any of the Big Four Palos? Solea, Buleria, Algeria, Siguiriya?

In terms of “Big” I would try to distinguish between “important” versus “large repertoire”. To me large repertoire is more “important”, in that case, FANDANGO is the biggest umbrella of songs, with Soleá being second biggest. From there I feel the other forms to be derivative of those…and by forms I mean cante melodies. Compás to me is an interpretative “treatment” of how these naked cante melodies could be accompanied and there we have 4 basic treatments:12 count, abandolao, 8 count (to include the triplet Tanguillo/zapateado etc), and martinete/siguirya that does not have its own name, but applies to cante melodies like Serrana/Liviana, etc, but lets call it 5-count for fun. Unfortunately, aficionados don’t always distinguish Compás from cante melody and lump things together as they see fit.

Cante Melody: Soleá (derivatives Bulería, Tiento-Tango, etc., relate to Romances), Fandango, (Cante Levante being related but separate and enormous), Toná (martinete, siguiriyas, etc. related but separate, but not so enormous), Serrania (Caña, Serrana, etc.), ida y vuelta, Sevillana/aflamencada songs. It is easy to find solea type melodies in Sevillana/Bambera/Petenera, etc, and rumba gitana, boleros, cuple, etc. But there is a reason for the formal structure of the early list melodies so I consider this list a hierarchy of sorts. I consider Alegrias and other Cantiñas to be melodically related to Fandango. So the subset of Fandangos driven by Soleá compas instead of Abandolao could fit the cantiñas family of songs IMO. So the three big and distinct umbrella forms are Fandango, Solea, And Toná. Not liking any of those would be the “problem” as a flamenco aficionado, for sure.

Compás Treatments: Abandolao:Fandango, Sevillana, most cante Levantes.
12-count-Solea buleria Romance, cantina, etc, some fandangos, Caña/polo, re-interpretations used for Petenera and guajiras.
8-count-Tiento tango, rumba, certain cantes mineros, certain ida y vuelta melodies, Farruca, etc.
5-count-siguiriyas, Toná and certain cantes sin guitarra, Serrana, Liviana…a relatively small group of melodies by comparison.

Keep in mind there is a deep relationship between Abandolao and 12-count, the 12-count and the generic altering 6/8-3/4 pattern, and the 12-count and the 5-count by accents to a 6/8-3/4 as well. A strong factor to keep in mind is that the typical use 12-count is actually a 10+2 count mentality. The so called “Jaleo” bridges the 12-count with abandolao as well. So lines between cante accompaniment “treatments” can get blurred, where as melodies will be more strongly distinct when adhered to in orthodox fashion.

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The son huasteco is a form within the huapango genre. Its dance meter is compounded of 3's and 2's. A number of versions called "Petenera" are associated with travel to Spain, North Africa and other exotic destinations. I remember the son huasteco from the sierra huasteca mountains of eastern Mexico. In the late 1950s-early 1960s the student Speleological Society of the University of Texas explored some of the world's deepest caves in the sierra huasteca. They were far from any road. Supplies for week long expeditions were freighted in over mountain trails by mule train.

The arrieros (mule drivers) sang as we hiked, often slower than in the video--a walking pace rather than a dancing tempo. Still with characteristic excursions into falsetto, some long sustained and harmonized by two or more singers.

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He and others attribute peteneras to Mexican huapango aflamencado.

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ORIGINAL: Ricardo
Your link did not work.

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What struck me was the wide divergence between the peteneras of La Niña de los Peines and the fairly modern Mexican version, given that they are said to have a common ancestor.

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Pastora's version, though it retains the compás, has almost completely lost its dance character, though I could imagine someone like Antonio Gades or Vicente Escudero deciding to take it on.

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ORIGINAL: Ricardo

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What struck me was the wide divergence between the peteneras of La Niña de los Peines and the fairly modern Mexican version, given that they are said to have a common ancestor.

Tracing a song form using elements of Huapango to a region with the name “Petén” is, not unlike the “FAndango” word used by Indian Natives there as well, not really relevant to flamenco music formal structure, and the way of this type of research in general. (Trace the name, not the MUSIC formal structure or melody).

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Ricardo:
Thus any cante can be “danced”, and not only one speed or manner.

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Back to melody and harmony….clearly European. Where did those “guitar” looking things come from? So Spaniards handed their guitars to these Indians and they made up these songs??? Then, sailors brought the Indian created songs back home? And same all down to South America? It seems to me an important step of transmission is missing from the story.

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Here's something we can be sure has made just a one-way trip from origin to performance: Cielito Lindo por bulerias by Pastora Pavon, with Melchor de Marchena blasting along on guitar.

The piece was written by Quirino Mendoza y Cortés in Mexico in 1882. Despite its continued overwhelming popularity, this is the only flamencofied version I have ever heard.