Rosalia is absolute garbage (Full Version)

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estebanana -> Rosalia is absolute garbage (Mar. 28 2023 21:22:55)

I try not to get involved in trashing artists I don’t like, unless they are utter trash either culturally or artistically. Her act has bubbled up in front of me on a flamenco video channel I watch. Ordinarily I’d just ignore something that bad and move on. Her **** hurt my eyes, I want to press charges for putting her musical litter in public. In this case I toss Rosalia into the crap dumpster of history with Ted Nugent, who is cultural and musical trash.

Call the truck to haul the dumpster away, what madness, what disgrace.



Ricardo -> RE: Rosalia is absolute garbage (Mar. 29 2023 12:00:08)

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

I try not to get involved in trashing artists I don’t like, unless they are utter trash either culturally or artistically. Her act has bubbled up in front of me on a flamenco video channel I watch. Ordinarily I’d just ignore something that bad and move on. Her **** hurt my eyes, I want to press charges for putting her musical litter in public. In this case I toss Rosalia into the crap dumpster of history with Ted Nugent, who is cultural and musical trash.

Call the truck to haul the dumpster away, what madness, what disgrace.


This is not a fair review without seeing the source. More likely it is not like basic waste garbage at all. Something more akin to spent plutonium rods, or dirty bomb fall out.



estebanana -> RE: Rosalia is absolute garbage (Mar. 29 2023 12:31:13)

It’s too awful. She’s wearing thigh high blue leather boots and a cheerleader outfit with blaring reggaeton and she’s doing the worst sloppy corte you have ever seen a clueless student beginner dancer do.

I’ll try to find it. It’s horrendous! I had no concept of how bad it could get.



BarkellWH -> RE: Rosalia is absolute garbage (Mar. 29 2023 13:20:50)

quote:

It’s too awful. She’s wearing thigh high blue leather boots and a cheerleader outfit with blaring reggaeton and she’s doing the worst sloppy corte you have ever seen a clueless student beginner dancer do.


Sounds like the same Rosalia we have been discussing in other threads. You know, the Rosalia that one poster said represented the future of flamenco by introducing young people to "flamenco nuevo," or "urban flamenco," or "(fill in the blank) flamenco." And, of course, she is the Rosalia that captivated the Washington Post's renowned flamenco aficionado and music critic Chris Richards in his gushing review of one of her performances.

Get with it, man! The train has left the station and you're left standing on the platform.

Bill



Ricardo -> RE: Rosalia is absolute garbage (Mar. 29 2023 14:45:21)

I found it. This one? It is a nice Ragaeton actually. I like her cheerleader outfit too.



This version of Chicken Teriyaki is better than the studio version as well:




Pgh_flamenco -> RE: Rosalia is absolute garbage (Mar. 29 2023 15:12:43)

For someone that aficionados don’t think is flamenco she certainly takes up a lot of their time and energy. She’s been the focus of more threads than Paco in the last year or so - lol.

If you don’t like her why wouldn’t just ignore her!?!



Morante -> RE: Rosalia is absolute garbage (Mar. 29 2023 16:12:11)

Rosalía was a young girl who studied music and flamenco. She was selected by the moguls of the music industry, who saw her a merchandice and tried to create another Lady Gaga for Hispanos. They suceeded. She is enjoying the life that this fame has given.

She is neither a great singer nor a great cantaora but she cannot direct her life. Best to leave her alone or criticize the industry who created her.



estebanana -> RE: Rosalia is absolute garbage (Mar. 29 2023 16:27:33)

It’s the first time I saw what she does because I didn’t pay attention enough to understand what everyone is complaining about.
Rosalia is responsible for her own situation, and shouldn’t be compared to Lady Gaga who is a good singer in her genre and genuinely a talent with integrity.



Morante -> RE: Rosalia is absolute garbage (Mar. 29 2023 16:56:04)

Try reading a post before making another of your stupid comments. There is nothing in my post which opines about Lady Gaga.



Bulerias2005 -> RE: Rosalia is absolute garbage (Mar. 29 2023 18:09:42)

For someone who this community loves to hate so much, she sure seems to live rent-free in a lot of posters' minds. I always find that kind of stuff fascinating...



Mark2 -> RE: Rosalia is absolute garbage (Mar. 29 2023 19:04:35)

Sounds pretty hot. No more offensive than J.Lo or Shakira. I saw a Shakira performance on TV where it was mostly her bending over and showing her butt. WTF? I mean, sure she is attractive, but talk about musically empty. I call her Sherika just to annoy my kids.

For me Rihanna has a bit more substance, and Lady Gaga too.

I read an interview with Pat Metheny yesterday where he absolutely ripped Kenny G. apart. Like, he wants to kick his ass. I'm not sure it was entirely justified because Kenny G. can play his instrument. He just chooses to do really commercial crap cause it pays really well. PM said his recording where he dubbed himself playing with Louis Armstrong was an unforgiveable transgression. The last straw.

I don't care about Rosalia's music but I kinda liked the auto tune sound on a tango she did, but that sig. with the horrible guitar playing was really really bad. I don't listen to her recordings or watch her vids, so it's a non issue for me.

For that matter I don't listen to anyone I mentioned above, including PM.

Too much good music out there to waste time on folks whose music I don't care for.


quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana
She’s wearing thigh high blue leather boots and a cheerleader outfit .



estebanana -> RE: Rosalia is absolute garbage (Mar. 30 2023 0:19:30)

“RE: Rosalia is absolute garbage (in reply to estebanana)
New Messages
Try reading a post before making another of your stupid comments. There is nothing in my post which opines about Lady Gaga.”



You said the controllers of the music industry tried to create her in the image of Gaga ( who is a pretty top flight interpreter of American Broadway / Jazz Standards) I said they shouldn’t be compared. How do get to take it personally when my comment was an editorial comment on your citing the music industry’s intentions? Did I say that you see it that way? No I didn’t.

I saw this Rosalia person’s videos for the first time about 48 hours ago and I was shocked at how utterly bad she is. Not only with the sliver of flamenco she superficially gloms onto her performances, but at how bad the overall quality is as a pop persona and performance staged dance routine, regardless of genre.


I don’t pay attention to popular culture much because I’ve got other interests and a lifetime back catalog of classical and jazz recordings to study and enjoy. If I do see a pop act and it’s good I’m wowed. Sometimes a popular music industry fabricated gimmick group might be interesting, high quality, impressive by its group discipline or cute- ideally a combination of all these qualities. I looked at the Rosalia video and didn’t find any of these qualities that I might enjoy as a diversion from my usual classical- jazz- opera ‘snobbery’, but she didn’t deliver anything, it’s as if she had the opposite talent of taking quality away and replacing it with the hubris to mock flamenco.

Her performance left me wondering who is so uneducated or undiscerning with music that they would find solace, redemption or even dance hall fun in her pretending, her fakery that emulates an art firm like flamenco? I guess someone finds it interesting in the same way that my jr. high English students find K-Pop and J-Pop interesting, but the difference is K-Pop bands don’t have the hubris to think they are taking on Duke Ellington in their performances, they are just doing a pop music format with a dance routine and not calling into it a form like flamenco, or Kabuki and then doing it really really at sub par level. Rosalia isn’t sub par, she not even on the golf course.

Ah Pat Metheny dueling with Kenny G-

Kenny G puts out the equivalent of easy listening Christmas albums, and he’s Jewish. He’s really Jewish, but that guy can freaking play. He’s a masterful jazz soprano saxophonist who produces popular jazz albums. The thing with him is, he can really play and if you attend one of his big live shows in a theater he brings a top notch band and plays standards at a professional level. During his shows once his audience is warmed up he cuts loose and honks on that horn like Coltrane playing soprano.

There’s nothing wrong with Kenny G that PM needs to worry about because Kenny is one of the true gateway artists who can draw in a crowd who’d ordinarily be scared by ‘hard jazz’ and expose them gradually to what the art form is about. The reverse snobbery that occasionally comes his way is unwarranted, and he’s respected by most horn players for that position in the business.



estebanana -> RE: Rosalia is absolute garbage (Mar. 30 2023 0:32:12)

I don’t recall PM getting a visit from SW -




estebanana -> RE: Rosalia is absolute garbage (Mar. 30 2023 0:39:24)

Kenny G playing a Coltrane composition.

First, name that tune off the top of your head.
Second, understand that Coltrane composed beautiful music that’s ‘easy listening’ too and that’s part of where artists like Wayne Shorter and Kenny get inspiration from.

He doesn’t play hard enough for you? Visit the tender moments of Sonny Rollins.




estebanana -> RE: Rosalia is absolute garbage (Mar. 30 2023 0:53:31)




If it’s too much to listen through the whole thing, just drop in at 18:00 minutes in and he’s already going off playing fairly hard to his easy listening audience.

What he packages and the journey he takes the live audience on are slightly different. He’s a commercial player in many ways just like several other saxophonists, but yeah he brings in people who otherwise wouldn’t step into jazz. He’s like Yo Yo Ma, he’s a good businessman and a professional player. Is he Sun Ra? Nope. But you don’t have to be in outer space every day.



estebanana -> RE: Rosalia is absolute garbage (Mar. 30 2023 1:12:47)




I’m not a regular follower of Pat Methane- 😂

But his music doesn’t ever strike me as transgressive or challenging in a way that merits his criticism of Kenny G. Here’s his commission from the LA Guitar Quartet, it’s nice music and quite faux-menco in some parts. I’ve listened the all the pieces and his interviews on composing them. It’s ok, but I didn’t find it particularly compelling or challenging to listen. Not super interesting either.

I posted a snippet

I used to listen to PM in the 1980’s on cassette in my VW Bug



Stu -> RE: Rosalia is absolute garbage (Mar. 30 2023 11:31:13)

I cant hear the name Kenny G without thinking about the waynes world films. [:D][:D][:D]

v=Zy6KWBEoDRU

quote:

She’s wearing thigh high blue leather boots and a cheerleader


link? [:D]



Ricardo -> RE: Rosalia is absolute garbage (Mar. 30 2023 12:01:23)

quote:

shouldn’t be compared to Lady Gaga who is a good singer in her genre and genuinely a talent with integrity.


Well, I guess you have not seen her non-auto tuned performances/documentary etc. She can’t sing even one note in tune. In that regard, Rosalia can croon circles around googoo gaga. It is a good comparison honestly. Rihanna is much more legit, based on live shows (plus she hired Nuno because she likes bad ass guitar, rather than pretend to back up Metallica [:D]. I admit her rehearsal with Metallica was good, she seems like a cool person).

Let’s see, can we go after any other mediocrity success stories? Kenny on Naima was about as good as Ottmar’s Soleá.




estebanana -> RE: Rosalia is absolute garbage (Mar. 30 2023 15:19:04)

Ricardo,

I think you moved the goalposts of my argument. I said in her genre Gaga can hold her own. She can sing the head off a jazz standard and move through the song and interpret it according to a level of professionalism that would be acceptable to a Broadway musical composer or a good jazz singer like Tony Bennett, both types she has collaborated with. Rosalia couldn’t sing or dance at a professional level in flamenco, or even from what I’ve seen of her baile at an advanced student level. Her dancing is horrible, while Gaga can work with long time pros without backbiting on her level of ability.


My argument was also changed because I didn’t make Naima into Coltrane’s ‘solea’ I left Naima as a lighthearted comparison to Wayne Shorter or Kenny G’s lighter music.

Granted I’ll be with Shorter as the older more innovative master over Kenny G, but I respect both as masters of the instrument. Note Kenny G letting go in his live performances, the guy is not only schooled, but he’s capable of extremely high quality studio work. Is he as wild as Rahsaan Kirk? No, but he’s a good player.

The thing is Rosalia isn’t up to the highest level of baile in flamenco, but she worked it into her show. It’s horrible, both Gaga and Kenny G can work with the top masters in their respective arenas and not be embarrassing. In fact if you are open to it, the duet of Stevie Wonder and Kenny G is really good.



estebanana -> RE: Rosalia is absolute garbage (Mar. 30 2023 15:22:16)

Finally I’d agree with you and Miguel on Rihanna- she’s really good.

My point with Metheny and Mr. G is that Pat isn’t significantly better than G to warrant him calling G a sellout. Perhaps he’s got a modicum of sour grapes towards G in terms of how much money they each make? Right? I don’t see wealthy guys like John McLaughlin or Al di Meola going after Kenny G.

To end, if there is a such thing as Coltrane’s solea it’s probably the album ‘Crescent’ or maybe ‘Selflessness’ who knows. All I know is that if I go with Fernanda de Utrera or Coltrane or even certain Led Zeppelin, it’s all solea.



Mark2 -> RE: Rosalia is absolute garbage (Mar. 30 2023 15:26:54)

Easy, learned that tune when I was 18. I’ve never listened to Kenny g so I can’t comment on his ability. I am familiar with his reputation as a slinger of watered down easy listening jazz. Artists don’t normally rip other artists like this so I was surprised:

http://www.jazzoasis.com/methenyonkennyg.htm



estebanana -> RE: Rosalia is absolute garbage (Mar. 30 2023 15:54:38)

After reading that quoted interview answer by Metheny I’m puzzled as to why he excuses the overdubbing of Tony Bennett with Billie Holiday, but excoriates Kenny G for the same thing with Louis Armstrong.

I don’t think Methany’s arguments are that secure. Musically or logically. In particular he goes after David Sanborn the alto saxophonist the same way he takes down Kenny. It leads me to think they were in competition for places as TV band leaders posts on various late night talk shows and Pat wasn’t hired. Sanborn was a musical director for late night TV shows in the 1980’s. I discussed him with my saxophone teacher at the time and he couldn’t bad mouth him for making a living. One could do worse than being David Sanborn.



Mark2 -> RE: Rosalia is absolute garbage (Mar. 30 2023 16:53:22)

I tend to agree. Metheny excuses Bennet because in his opinion, TB is on the same level as Billy Holiday. He excuses Natalie Cole because Nat was her dad. Kenny gets no pass.

Metheny is a hard working musician, no doubt. It must hurt a bit that KG makes so much more than him. One thing that was interesting to me is the way he described Kenny's playing with Lorber and beyond. He really dissed him. A jazz musician saying a guy only knows pentatonics.....whew.

I know a great sax player who admits to using some of the devices that PM says KG trades in-the long held notes, the endless repeating riff. He makes no bones about it. He can play heavy jazz, and does, but makes his living playing R&B.



quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

After reading that quoted interview answer by Metheny I’m puzzled as to why he excuses the overdubbing of Tony Bennett with Billie Holiday, but excoriates Kenny G for the same thing with Louis Armstrong.

I don’t think Methany’s arguments are that secure. Musically or logically. In particular he goes after David Sanborn the alto saxophonist the same way he takes down Kenny. It leads me to think they were in competition for places as TV band leaders posts on various late night talk shows and Pat wasn’t hired. Sanborn was a musical director for late night TV shows in the 1980’s. I discussed him with my saxophone teacher at the time and he couldn’t bad mouth him for making a living. One could do worse than being David Sanborn.



chester -> RE: Rosalia is absolute garbage (Mar. 30 2023 20:54:01)

Just for context -- that Pat Metheny on Kenny G stuff is over 20 years old.

Also nothing in Lady Gaga's, Shakira's, or Rhianna's rep can't hold a candle to Adele's "Hello"



estebanana -> RE: Rosalia is absolute garbage (Mar. 31 2023 0:46:15)

The material I referenced that Pat M composed is from his commission to write a suite for the LA Guitar Quartet it’s been within the last few years.

If you really want pop music, at 70 something Roberta Flack blows them all away.



estebanana -> RE: Rosalia is absolute garbage (Mar. 31 2023 0:53:23)

Show me a horn player today that doesn’t use his or her cyclic breathing abilities to wow an audience…
A few weeks back we were defending Sabicas for doing his fancy pants rasgueado up and down the fretboard. One of the trolly members protested that this isn’t arte but a cheap gimmick.

Well I’m here to tell you cyclic breathing and pro level rasgueado are how the horn players and tocaroes put food on the table.



Echi -> RE: Rosalia is absolute garbage (Mar. 31 2023 8:32:34)

Like it or not, Metheny is regarded among the most influential jazz guitarists of the last 30 years.
It’s just a fact.
Vicente Amigo has Metheny as an idol and just applied his lesson to flamenco.
Kenny G is purely commercial stuff instead.
It doesn’t matter he’s actually very good at playing. That music is a contradiction to jazz music.
The parallel with Lieber fits perfectly.



estebanana -> RE: Rosalia is absolute garbage (Mar. 31 2023 10:41:48)

Did I ever say PM wasn’t an important player? And just because he is it’s still fair to call him on his big mouth.

The point is, whether you like him or not Kenny G or David Sanborn et al can sit down and play jazz with the best players in the business, whether or not you think they are pithy or important isn’t the point. Lady Gaga can collaborate with Tony Bennett or Burt Bacharach, at their invitation ( well Bert B died in March 2023) ‘Faux-Zalia’ can’t work with the top flamenco people because she’s not even close to an advanced student level dancer. The point is that’s shamelessly F-ed up. Prior to a few days ago I never bothered to watch her, and didn’t think twice about it. Now then when I did see her stuff I was aghast at how totally off the mark it is.

She shouldn’t be advertised as having anything to do with flamenco, but that’s how the money people in the music business roll. They can be dishonest, and in her case profoundly dishonest. With artists like Ottmar or Kenny G, they are honestly represented as artists who do what they do. You don’t have to like them, but I’d not accuse them of false advertising or claiming to be in a genre they don’t understand.



Mark2 -> RE: Rosalia is absolute garbage (Mar. 31 2023 17:14:32)

OMG I laughed out loud. Was at the dentist last week and he beat the crap out of my mouth.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Stu

I cant hear the name Kenny G without thinking about the waynes world films. [:D][:D][:D]

v=Zy6KWBEoDRU

quote:

She’s wearing thigh high blue leather boots and a cheerleader


link? [:D]



tk -> RE: Rosalia is absolute garbage (Mar. 31 2023 17:28:34)

which Rosalia is this? I am curious at this point



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