machopicasso -> Enrique Vargas's Transcriptions of El Viejín (Mar. 13 2023 4:15:56)
1. Has anyone here used Enrique Vargas's transcriptions of El Viejin? Are they good transcriptions?
2. Relatedly, I was wondering if this performance was based on Vargas's transcription. There's a discrepancy between the performance and the recording at around 1:57, but that just might be a mistake.
machopicasso -> RE: Enrique Vargas's Transcriptions of El Viejín (Mar. 13 2023 5:09:37)
Never mind on the first question. I had forgotten Vargas transcribed Almoraima!
Ricardo -> RE: Enrique Vargas's Transcriptions of El Viejín (Mar. 13 2023 15:53:27)
I have the book 1 with only 3 pieces. Not bad, but there are small errors as with most transcriptions. It was interesting to read about the Cano roto style and history, however, the book is as thick as a full album score with 1/3 of the music.
The girl in the video is just changing the order of the falsetas (and does that remate you question twice), but if you mean fingerings, it is possible she figured it out on her own differently.
She is free to do as she wants with it. But what for me is missing is the basic compas expression like what he does at 1:14, 2:59, and 3:52. Maybe for folks that is not important or “personal” but for me it is the exact opposite. That is THE thing that gets me the flavor of the palo, everybody should do it or something very similar. She tries to express it once with Abanico, something missing about it for me, that it needs the fingers version. Maybe I am too picky.
machopicasso -> RE: Enrique Vargas's Transcriptions of El Viejín (Mar. 16 2023 6:11:50)
I totally agree about the missing a-m-i rasqueado. That's the one thing I most associate with this palo.
It seems to be common among all the modern players. Gerardo's "Plaza de Arenal," Vicente's "Reino de Silia," Tomatito's "La Andonda," etc. Any idea when it became standard?
Paco's "Antonio" is an interesting exception.
Ricardo -> RE: Enrique Vargas's Transcriptions of El Viejín (Mar. 16 2023 10:51:31)
quote:
Any idea when it became standard?
It is a replacement for the basic pinky, ring, middle, index, index up, rasgueado, which is described in Eduardo Ocón’s transcriptions of 1856-67 (Fandango, Soledad, Polo, etc.), so the basic idea of expressing the beat is quite old. However, the marked group of 4 notes was used in Siguiriyas first and for Solea I noticed the pattern in the Solea of Esteban de Sanlucar (using only index I believe), and eventually takes over without out the pinky. It still is not “standard” in the sense, I would still be ok if she used the pinky version (5-tuplets usually), as people still do that too.
In Antonia he does express it with wrist up and down (not abanico), at 4:08 for example, and normal way at 4:26 etc., but to call in the cante which is not on the original studio recording:
xirdneH_imiJ -> RE: Enrique Vargas's Transcriptions of El Viejín (Mar. 16 2023 12:42:35)
I'm finding that the eamii pattern (e a m i i↓ e a m then i on the 3 as the accent) is still fairly common. In fact I like to use it during dance accompaniment as it saves energy vs the amii rasgueado and the resulting mood or tone is slightly different but nobody but pro guitarists would notice.
