Conde 2012 Real or Fake (Full Version)

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flce -> Conde 2012 Real or Fake (Jun. 8 2022 18:27:39)

Hello friends,

I’m in Canada and new on this forum.

2 years ago I purchased a Conde guitar from Facebook,
It seems the vendor was OK, good reputation.
The guitar sounds very good, I'm happy with it.

I just want to know if it is a real Conde or a fake.

The guitar was shipped to me from Majorca.

I uploaded some photos of the guitar.









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flce -> [Deleted] (Jun. 8 2022 18:30:21)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Jun. 8 2022 18:31:44



flce -> RE: Conde 2012 Real or Fake (Jun. 8 2022 18:32:47)

more pics









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flce -> RE: Conde 2012 Real or Fake (Jun. 8 2022 18:36:11)

last ones









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orsonw -> RE: Conde 2012 Real or Fake (Jun. 8 2022 20:57:17)

Looks to be a genuine 2012 Gravina 7 Conde. But depends what you mean by 'fake' and how much you paid for it? If more than €1800- €2000 then that is too much.

At that time Faustino Conde's widow outsourced to who knows which builders and nothing to do with Gravina 7 from the Hermanos Conde days. These guitars are not of the quality or value of earlier pre-1990's Gravina 7. Or Felipe V, or Atocha from the same period.

For example this 2011 Gravina negra linked below sold recently for €1800. You can read more in the description about Gravina guitars from that time period.
https://www.flamencoguitarsforsale.net/en/hermanos-conde-guitars/flamenco-guitar-hermanos-conde-2011-ex-juanito-makande/



Morante -> RE: Conde 2012 Real or Fake (Jun. 8 2022 23:54:12)

quote:


At that time Faustino Conde's widow outsourced to who knows which builders


I remember asking her about this, since she had a shop full of guitars. She said that she continued to use the same people who made guitars for Faustino. Conde had a workshop in Pozuelo which turned out all the student guitars. I think that Valencia came later.



Ricardo -> RE: Conde 2012 Real or Fake (Jun. 9 2022 11:53:29)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Morante

quote:


At that time Faustino Conde's widow outsourced to who knows which builders


I remember asking her about this, since she had a shop full of guitars. She said that she continued to use the same people who made guitars for Faustino. Conde had a workshop in Pozuelo which turned out all the student guitars. I think that Valencia came later.


The thick fingerboard and rosette are characteristic of Hermanos Sanchis Lopez 2F I have seen years ago (now around $2,200, but $1500 back in 2005). He has some weird thing on the tie block covering the tie block design which I also suspect is of Sanchis make. As discussed a gazillion times, all Condes are out sourced, so if the label is real (this one is real, Gravina style for its time) then the guitar can still carry its value. The price of E1,800 was probably more like E1,500 back then, and ONLY for professional artists (don’t know Makande but must be related to the famous singer of fandango?). The general public would sometimes get charged close to $5,000!! (Tourist prices). We know this from Gerardo who used to buy guitars for students or friends so they would get ripped off. Keep in mind, the house was probably paying Sanchis or whoever these prices, so not much profit from selling to pro artists. This Makande guy would be making E300 or less (not sure what the outlet keeps) over what he paid for the thing. But that is a steal vs what the normal market value was for a “media Luna” as it is called.



Stu -> RE: Conde 2012 Real or Fake (Jun. 9 2022 12:26:35)

yeah what is that little weird insert under the strings there?



Arash -> RE: Conde 2012 Real or Fake (Jun. 9 2022 12:38:18)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stu

yeah what is that little weird insert under the strings there?


Thats a KNA Pickup NG-1

https://www.knapickups.com/en/guitar/uke/ng-1-pickup-kna

There is also NG2 which has volume control

It is actually pretty "natural" sounding for a piezo (and the price which is around 50 bucks)






Stu -> RE: Conde 2012 Real or Fake (Jun. 9 2022 22:46:39)

Cool.Cheers Ar ash. Ive never seen one of those before



Echi -> RE: Conde 2012 Real or Fake (Jun. 10 2022 16:05:49)

+ 1 for authentic V. Sanchis - Gravina Conde.
Not a fan of those guitars.
Be careful to the low bone at the saddle.



orsonw -> RE: Conde 2012 Real or Fake (Jun. 10 2022 17:03:34)

quote:

But that is a steal vs what the normal market value was for a “media Luna” as it is called.


€1800 is only a steal compared to other sellers over estimating the value and finding naive buyers who don't know the difference.
For example on ebay now you can find these overpriced guitars:
Unsigned 1986 Atocha green label student model for $5K.
Unsigned undated Pozuelo green label student model for $4K



Ricardo -> RE: Conde 2012 Real or Fake (Jun. 10 2022 19:10:35)

quote:

Unsigned 1986 Atocha green label student model for $5K.
Unsigned undated Pozuelo green label student model for $4K


In all honesty, as I said earlier, the 2F went up from $1500 to $2500, so those models went up equivalently as well (extra inflated by individual sellers vs outlets that know better). Guitar dealer outlets know the signed media Lunas were going at $5k. Gas is now $5. [:D]



flce -> RE: Conde 2012 Real or Fake (Jun. 10 2022 19:17:24)

Thank you everyone for the feed back. I appreciate it.



orsonw -> RE: Conde 2012 Real or Fake (Jun. 10 2022 20:41:24)

quote:

In all honesty, as I said earlier, the 2F went up from $1500 to $2500, so those models went up equivalently as well (extra inflated by individual sellers vs outlets that know better). Guitar dealer outlets know the signed media Lunas were going at $5k. Gas is now $5.



Maybe US prices are higher with tax/shipping and scarcity?
But today in Europe even at a dealer; Solera you can buy a 2006 Felipe V for $5K, or a 1989 Felipe V $5.6K, or 1993 Sanchis 1F for $1.9K. Or from Mundo flamenco a 2001 Felipe V negra $4.2K. Or from David guitars a 2001 Felipe V $4.2k. etc...

If you want a good Gravina 7 from 50s,60s,70s,80s yes then that could be around $5K but can go up to $12k. Buying from a private seller can be $1K or $2K less than from a dealer.
Paying $5k for a student model makes no sense.

Sanchis stopped making 2F some years ago, 2015 I think. They changed the line up. Now their lower model is called 'Solea'. It's construction is equivalent to the old 1F cost $1.9K.

We are fortunate that flamenco guitars haven't gone up anything like electric guitars. I guess a 1980s Reyes is one of the most collectable and cost around $15-20K? Compare that to a 1959 Les Paul, which can get up to $500K or Peter Green's Les Paul $2million.



Arash -> RE: Conde 2012 Real or Fake (Jun. 11 2022 11:33:12)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Echi


Be careful to the low bone at the saddle.


Hi Echi, can you elaborate what you exactly mean by that?



JasonM -> RE: Conde 2012 Real or Fake (Jun. 12 2022 14:50:33)

quote:

Maybe US prices are higher with tax/shipping and scarcity?
But today in Europe even at a dealer; Solera you can buy a 2006 Felipe V for $5K, or a 1989 Felipe V $5.6K, or 1993 Sanchis 1F for $1.9K. Or from Mundo flamenco a 2001 Felipe V negra $4.2K. Or from David guitars a 2001 Felipe V $4.2k. etc...

If you want a good Gravina 7 from 50s,60s,70s,80s yes then that could be around $5K but can go up to $12k. Buying from a private seller can be $1K or $2K less than from a dealer.
Paying $5k for a student model makes no sense.

Sanchis stopped making 2F some years ago, 2015 I think. They changed the line up. Now their lower model is called 'Solea'. It's construction is equivalent to the old 1F cost $1.9K.


Seem to remember reading somewhere here that Felipe V 2001 or 2003 years were kind of lemon guitars???

Sanchis 2F model was outsourced and made to their specs, 1F was not. So maybe the Solea is now made in house as well. Just a guess



Morante -> RE: Conde 2012 Real or Fake (Jun. 12 2022 15:52:31)

quote:

Unsigned undated Pozuelo green label student model for $4


Funny. I have one, now hanging on the wall of the Peña de Irlanda del Norte. It cost me 15,000 pesetas in Gravina. After I had refused 5 Pozuelos for faults, Faustino offered me a Media Luna, signed by himself, for 35,000 pesetas. Sadly, these were the days of travellers cheques and long queues to change. I had money in the bank, but could not take it out in Spain, so I lost a real 1978 Faustino [:@]



Ricardo -> RE: Conde 2012 Real or Fake (Jun. 13 2022 12:23:03)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arash

quote:

ORIGINAL: Echi


Be careful to the low bone at the saddle.


Hi Echi, can you elaborate what you exactly mean by that?


In the photos of the bridge, very little bone is poking above the bridge wood…meaning it can’t be lowered. However, the bridge wood looks pretty flat as if someone already sanded it down to get the bone saddle even lower. I suspect this could be continued until the break angle reaches zero, at which point the guitar needs new string holes drilled.



Arash -> RE: Conde 2012 Real or Fake (Jun. 16 2022 12:10:38)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arash

quote:

ORIGINAL: Echi


Be careful to the low bone at the saddle.


Hi Echi, can you elaborate what you exactly mean by that?


In the photos of the bridge, very little bone is poking above the bridge wood…meaning it can’t be lowered. However, the bridge wood looks pretty flat as if someone already sanded it down to get the bone saddle even lower. I suspect this could be continued until the break angle reaches zero, at which point the guitar needs new string holes drilled.


makes sense. thanks for reply



flce -> RE: Conde 2012 Real or Fake (Jun. 16 2022 15:10:29)

I have purposely sanded the saddle to lower the action, in combination with HT strings it sounds the way I like it, to revert it, if I want to I could replace the saddle with a new higher one or raise the action by shimming the bridge saddle with aluminum paper



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