Concert flamenco guitar suggestions (Spain) (Full Version)

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danyjr -> Concert flamenco guitar suggestions (Spain) (Feb. 5 2022 21:02:51)

Hi there,

I have been playing classical guitar for 15 years and I am in search for a flamenco guitar to start learning, as I've finally moved to Spain now, in the perfect country to learn it and realise my wishes.

Today I went to a few shops and tried a few guitars of different price ranges.

Hermanos Camps Primera A was the cheapest (€1300) but actually I preferred the sound compared to two more expensive Vicente Carrillo models (Alegrías Blanca €2000 and Flamenca blanca €3300). I felt the Camps was brighter with less harmonics and more tone separation, better for flamenco playing compared to the Carrillo models which were more suited to classical guitar playing IMHO. Isn't this strange?

My budget is around €3500. Do anyone know any guitar shops in Barcelona (where I am located)? And any recommended luthiers/brands you recommend me to try?

Many thanks!



devilhand -> RE: Concert flamenco guitar suggestions (Spain) (Feb. 5 2022 21:31:44)

quote:

I've finally moved to Spain now, in the perfect country to learn it and realise my wishes.

quote:

Barcelona (where I am located)

Sorry, this is off-topic. Get out of Barcelona. Go to Andalusia.



Pgh_flamenco -> RE: Concert flamenco guitar suggestions (Spain) (Feb. 5 2022 21:59:53)

A lot of pros use guitars made by Conde Hermanos. They’re the industry standard for flamenco. You might be able to find a used Conde for €3,500. Ricardo Sanchis and Hermanos Sanchis Lopez both make professional level flamenco guitars. I haven’t checked prices in a long time, but mid-priced guitars are not usually worth the money.



Pgh_flamenco -> RE: Concert flamenco guitar suggestions (Spain) (Feb. 5 2022 22:18:23)

CONDE HERMANOS 2007- 1a Concert Master Flamenco Guitar Blanca, same PACO de LUCIA guitars Used – Mint $3,552.36

This appears to be a Conde with the Media Luna headstock. It’s in your price range, too. Conde has three shops - Atocha, Gravaina and Felipe V. These are street names and they appear on the label inside the sound hole of the guitar. Guitars made in the Felipe V shop are the most sought after. I couldn’t read the label on this one. Also, I’m not familiar with Conde’s 1a model. The A26 model could be considered their grand concert model.



danyjr -> RE: Concert flamenco guitar suggestions (Spain) (Feb. 5 2022 23:09:20)

quote:

Sorry, this is off-topic. Get out of Barcelona. Go to Andalusia.
I fully understand this post. Unfortunately I can't leave at the moment as my part time job is there. In the near future, definitely.



danyjr -> RE: Concert flamenco guitar suggestions (Spain) (Feb. 5 2022 23:13:55)

quote:

A lot of pros use guitars made by Conde Hermanos. They’re the industry standard for flamenco. You might be able to find a used Conde for €3,500. Ricardo Sanchis and Hermanos Sanchis Lopez both make professional level flamenco guitars.
Thanks for your suggestions. Yes, I would love a Conde Hermanos but prices are quite high and used ones are very few and far between, often with repaired cracks and what not, so I feel like I'll have to wait a long time before I can find one with the right price and not beaten to death. Not to mention having to mostly buy sight unseen from the internet whereas these guitars I can literally play in shops.

Also those ebony tuners...

quote:

I haven’t checked prices in a long time, but mid-priced guitars are not usually worth the money.
I was quite surprised by the quality of the Hermanos Camps Primera A. It was beating guitars twice its price without me thinking too much about it. Very comfortable neck too. YMMV.



orsonw -> RE: Concert flamenco guitar suggestions (Spain) (Feb. 5 2022 23:50:05)

quote:

Do anyone know any guitar shops in Barcelona (where I am located)? And any recommended luthiers/brands you recommend me to try?


A more expensive guitar is not necessarily better. Your experience is not strange at all, this is common.

Solera Flamenca is near Barcelona. They sometimes have good guitars in your budget. Personally I have had a very good experience visiting and buying guitars from them.
https://www.flamencoguitarsforsale.net/en/

If you are new to flamenco and don't yet know what kind of guitar you prefer, it may be best to get a second hand guitar. It will hold it's value and you can sell later if needed. You may find that as you get more experienced your first choice of guitar isn't what you ultimately prefer in a flamenco guitar.



Piwin -> RE: Concert flamenco guitar suggestions (Spain) (Feb. 6 2022 7:58:55)

If you're just starting out with flamenco and you like that guitar, why not just stick with the Camps 1A and save the rest of your money for later? You should be able to get plenty of mileage out of a guitar like that, and when the time comes when you feel you need something better, the Camps 1A can become your travel/beater guitar. Anyway, just a thought.



danyjr -> RE: Concert flamenco guitar suggestions (Spain) (Feb. 6 2022 10:50:04)

Thanks for your replies. I'm now torn between the Hermanos Camps Primera A and Amalio Burguet 2F. Both of the blanca (cypress variety). I think they are both really great guitars for the price and sound fantastic. The Camps is an easier guitar to play but the Burguet looks nicer.
Which one would you choose if you had to?
Thanks!



BarkellWH -> RE: Concert flamenco guitar suggestions (Spain) (Feb. 6 2022 13:54:07)

quote:

The Camps is an easier guitar to play but the Burguet looks nicer. Which one would you choose if you had to?


Hands down, the easier to play Camps. Guitars are to play, not look at.

Bill



Goldwinghai -> RE: Concert flamenco guitar suggestions (Spain) (Feb. 6 2022 17:20:07)

I agree with Bill. I had a Camps Primera negra, which was slolen duting a bus trip in Spain. It's a grade below the Camps Primera A. It was easy to play. I really liked it. So while in Spain I found a used Manuel Fernandez Fernadez blanca, which has a hairline crack for 650 euros. There is a noticeable difference in sound. The sound of the Fernandes Fernandez is much better, very balanced, and the highs are clear. I never played the A, so I cannot make comment any about it other than the Primera was very comfortable in my hands. Maybe you can look into the used market for the time being.



Schieper -> RE: Concert flamenco guitar suggestions (Spain) (Feb. 7 2022 8:38:40)

I have the 2F negra and have been playing various blanca's from Burguet. I realy wanted to love them as the build quality is realy superb, and although playability is also great, I just not warmed up to the sound.

Now by chance I played some camps ( CE-500/FL-11-s) and I realy came to love these guitars. Although considerable cheaper, the sound is much more appealing to me. faster attack, clearer tone,..

but that is just my opinion... :-)



danyjr -> RE: Concert flamenco guitar suggestions (Spain) (Feb. 7 2022 9:39:14)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Schieper

I have the 2F negra and have been playing various blanca's from Burguet. I realy wanted to love them as the build quality is realy superb, and although playability is also great, I just not warmed up to the sound.

Now by chance I played some camps ( CE-500/FL-11-s) and I realy came to love these guitars. Although considerable cheaper, the sound is much more appealing to me. faster attack, clearer tone,..

but that is just my opinion... :-)
Yes, the Camps is definitely more percussive in sound and brighter in tone. But then again my idea of a flamenco guitar is not really an expensive one. I'm not talking about the 'Paco sound' but the ones played by gitanos were the cheapest guitars they could get their hands on back in the day. 'Better' guitars generally have more harmonic overtones and sustain, the former which is unwanted and the latter which is unnecessary in flamenco.

I don't know if all the guitars I tried were strung with the same set. Life has taught me those little things make a bigger difference on the tone than construction type and wood use. After all, the sound of the guitar comes from the strings first. The rest of the guitar is merely there to sculpt that sound.

Just my 2 cents.



danyjr -> RE: Concert flamenco guitar suggestions (Spain) (Feb. 7 2022 10:33:47)

Sorry to be a pain but I see some used Conde Hermanos FP14 (their most basic studio model) for around €400-500 more than the Camps Primera A. Unfortunately I can't try them, so if I decide to buy I have to buy them sight unseen. I'm a little torn, because I have heard very good things about Conde guitars but I really like the Camps Primera A.

Any thoughts?



devilhand -> RE: Concert flamenco guitar suggestions (Spain) (Feb. 8 2022 11:15:56)

You can't try that Conde. So you'll never know. I would go for Camps Prim A.



Escribano -> RE: Concert flamenco guitar suggestions (Spain) (Feb. 8 2022 18:18:50)

quote:

Any thoughts?


Get a Bernal.



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