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Guest -> [Deleted] (Mar. 22 2006 18:45:30)

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Escribano -> RE: "Flamenco" by Carlos Saura (Mar. 22 2006 19:30:38)

quote:

I finally decided to ask if this movie is worth buying or watching


Yes. It is a seminal work and beautifully filmed.



Gummy -> RE: "Flamenco" by Carlos Saura (Mar. 22 2006 20:54:09)

Yes, it is definately worth watching. People should know though that it isn't a story type movie with dialogue. It is a series of songs one after another filmed with quality video and sound. I got it through NETFLIX. I also got a Paco video, a Sabicas video and a Gipsy Kings video. Pretty cool, my town would never get those in a local video store.

Rod



Jamey -> RE: "Flamenco" by Carlos Saura (Mar. 23 2006 2:08:10)

Carlos Saura is a master at lighting and shot arrangement. If you're a film buff, it's worth it for that alone. Besides, you'll never see La Paquera singing up that close ever again (with the exception of "Vengo"). El Torta sings in that one circa his crazy junky era and is full of raw power.

It's mandatory viewing for any flamenco enthusiast.

- Jamey



Jim9guitars -> RE: "Flamenco" by Carlos Saura (Mar. 23 2006 2:31:10)

I don't know where you live but in Canada it's available to borrow at our public libraries(at least the part of Canada I live in),

Jim



Exitao -> RE: "Flamenco" by Carlos Saura (Mar. 23 2006 5:18:44)

Isn't Carlos Saura the guy who directed El Amor Brujo?



El Becko -> RE: "Flamenco" by Carlos Saura (Mar. 23 2006 9:01:26)

"Vengo" from Tony Gatlif is a great "flamenco movie" as well. This movie's got duende ! And Tomatito plays in it.

Gatlif has made another movie more recently, which is called "Exils" and, which got a prize at the Cannes festival. Great flamenco scenes shot in Sevilla (at la Carboneria I believe).



el ted -> RE: "Flamenco" by Carlos Saura (Mar. 23 2006 9:21:19)

Buy it now! I would also track down his version of 'Carmen' which features Paco de Lucia.



JBASHORUN -> RE: "Flamenco" by Carlos Saura (Mar. 23 2006 11:43:29)

The film is great. Don't let Paquera De Jerez at the start scare you off.

There's an excellent scene with Manolo Sanlucar, which I really like. Manolo even joins in the singing at one point. And there is some old guy doing some of the cante for that song... he's wearing a funny hat, and has hand gestures and mannerisms a bit like a rapper. I think the guy is some sort of "Flamenco-pimp"! I often skip to this track and repeat because I like it so much. I find it hard to believe what Zata (Estela) says about Manolo being an unpleasant person.

Then there's Joaqin Cortez... the guy makes a point of taking off his shirt to dance, and is wearing shiny trousers. A bit of a ladies' man me thinks. Its quite amusing. But the scene really highlights the link between the music and the dancing. His style is a cross between the Irish Riverdance, Tapdancing and perhaps even a bit of Ballet. But the synchronicity between the music and the dance movements really comes across in that one.

Theres one scene, I think its scene number 6, with just 2 guys doing cante. I have to admit that I didn't particularly like the scene, as I felt it was too raw. but you have to admire the passion with which the guys perform. The dude on the right looks like he's about to cry at the end of the scene- seriously- its literally that intense!

Other scenes include a sort of family setup, where various people are seated around a large table and take turns to sing. And more dance scenes reminiscent of ballet.

The whole film features warm orange and yellow backdrops, and seems quite professionally made. I would recommend the film for anyone who likes Flamenco music or dance. But especially the dance, as its impossible to "see" the dancing when you're playing a CD. Its also a good intro to cante, as you get a good selection from a variety of singers.


Jb



henrym3483 -> RE: "Flamenco" by Carlos Saura (Mar. 23 2006 11:54:22)

i think the two guys singing were el moneo and manuel el agujetas, agujetas is a scary dude.

i think the bulerias at the beginning is great with moraito playing,i was quite enamoured by the gitana girl dancing in that scene[:D]

i think the buelrias with tomatito, duquende, potito, el grilo and belen maya takes some beating. great scene.



JBASHORUN -> RE: "Flamenco" by Carlos Saura (Mar. 23 2006 11:58:34)

Another good thing is the subtitles to the cante for some scenes. Gives you a good idea of what they are singing. interesting lyrics include:

"You threw a lemon at me and it hit me on the forehead. thats what love does, it makes you cheeky!"

"Mama, the kitten has scratched me! Mama, the kitten has scratched me! Put it out, put it outside for a while."


Some of the lyrics suggest a sort of spontaneity and improvisation.


Jb



JBASHORUN -> RE: "Flamenco" by Carlos Saura (Mar. 23 2006 13:46:19)

quote:

i think the bulerias at the beginning is great with moraito playing,i was quite enamoured by the gitana girl dancing in that scene


Yes, she does have a great pair of legs, if I may be so bold as to say so! [:D]


Jb



henrym3483 -> RE: "Flamenco" by Carlos Saura (Mar. 23 2006 13:58:46)

man that line that la paquera says to the end of her singing part IMO has alot of subtext if you ask me "if your name is dolores, if your name is dolores go jump in the river and gather camaron's (shrimp's) with your skirt"

ie: fish and fishmongers being since medieval times being references or nicknames for pimps and fallen women.



JBASHORUN -> RE: "Flamenco" by Carlos Saura (Mar. 23 2006 14:15:07)

Henry, I had been wondering about that lyric actually! And your interpretation is interesting... I didn't even know what a "camaron" was until now! But now I'm wondering why she used the name "Dolores"- any significance?


Jb



Kate -> RE: "Flamenco" by Carlos Saura (Mar. 23 2006 14:20:12)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JBASHORUN
But now I'm wondering why she used the name "Dolores"- any significance?


Jb


Dolores means pain as in the verb 'doler'. You will often hear the phrase "me duele" in flamenco, which means "It pains me"

Kate



henrym3483 -> RE: "Flamenco" by Carlos Saura (Mar. 23 2006 14:35:31)

after reading a number of books on flamenco history about juergas, this interpretation kinda makes sense to me given the relationship between the juerga, those singing dancing and playing

and the ahem "escorts" for the wealthy seniorito's paying for the somewhat debauched and less savoury elements of the entertainment provided at these private juerga.

henry



JBASHORUN -> RE: "Flamenco" by Carlos Saura (Mar. 23 2006 14:37:57)

quote:

Dolores means pain as in the verb 'doler'. You will often hear the phrase "me duele" in flamenco, which means "It pains me"


Aha, thanks Kate, my Spanish is not good. [&o] That might explain the interpretation somewhat.


Jb



JBASHORUN -> RE: "Flamenco" by Carlos Saura (Mar. 23 2006 14:40:22)

quote:

after reading a number of books on flamenco history about juergas


Henry, may I ask which books? if they are in English they might make a good read!


Jb



henrym3483 -> RE: "Flamenco" by Carlos Saura (Mar. 23 2006 14:59:34)

im kinda lucky in one respect being at uni, these books all came from my university catalogue, we have alot of dvds as well on flamenco baile,stuff by cortes,belen maya and one by los farrucos but none on the guitar[:(]


Leblon, Bernard. - Gypsies and flamenco : the emergence of the art of flamenco in Andalusia

Pohren, D. E., Donn E.. - A way of life

Mitchell, Timothy (Timothy J.). - Flamenco deep song

Flamenco : gypsy dance and music from Andalusia / edited by Claus Schreiner

Quintana, Bertha Beatrice. - 'Qué gitano' : gypsies of Southern Spain



JBASHORUN -> RE: "Flamenco" by Carlos Saura (Mar. 23 2006 15:02:03)

Cheers Henry! Will try and track some of them down for those long train journeys.


Jb



henrym3483 -> RE: "Flamenco" by Carlos Saura (Mar. 23 2006 15:13:53)

the deep song books by mitchell is tough going, taking a look at the phenomenon of flamenco from a sociological and ethnomusicology outlook but worth the read, the rest are good history ones with personal stories intermixed.



Guest -> [Deleted] (Mar. 24 2006 0:24:35)

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Florian -> RE: "Flamenco" by Carlos Saura (Mar. 24 2006 7:23:33)

quote:

Vengo" from Tony Gatlif is a great "flamenco movie" as well. This movie's got duende ! And Tomatito plays in it


I found it dessapointing, and too try hard.

there was only one good scene, "the one in the restaurant where the Gipsyes are doing a juerga at one table and the soldiers come and join them.

Unfortunately that part of the gipsyes life (the knifeings, its not fiction) and it always leaves me with a ugly taste in my mouth. I know it exists, i just dont wanna know about it, i like that music and thats it.



Kate -> RE: "Flamenco" by Carlos Saura (Mar. 24 2006 15:33:10)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Florian
Unfortunately that part of the gipsyes life (the knifeings, its not fiction) and it always leaves me with a ugly taste in my mouth. I know it exists, i just dont wanna know about it, i like that music and thats it.


Every community or race of people has a criminal element. I think it is important to remember that not all Gypsies fit this stereotype. ( Though if you go by Tony Gatliff 's films you could be forgiven for thinking so) I have been living and working among Gypsies for many years now, and I personally know no-one who has ever been involved in knife fight. I know Gypsies who are artists, writers, doctors, social workers, builders and bar owners, property developers, estate agents, grocers and farmers, shopkeepers, teachers...... etc etc

Over the last few months there have been a few street brawls resulting in stabbings, but not one of them involved Gypsies. The majority of muggings and knife attacks in Granada are committed by Moroccans and Rumanians, but I would never assume that all Moroccans and Rumanians live like this.
Kate



Florian -> RE: "Flamenco" by Carlos Saura (Mar. 24 2006 17:23:49)

quote:

Though if you go by Tony Gatliff 's films you could be forgiven for thinking so


If memory serves me correctly almost every flamenco movie i can think off a knife makes its apparence at some point, but that must just be the directors immagination.

Serriously I understand what u are saying Kate and i dont wanna stereotype, i realize its just a small part of it, nevertheless i am just speaking of incidents i have heard about from people first hand involved or the ones i have been involved in.




I have deleated the details of my story because i just realised that this is in the public part of the forum and i dont wanna share it with the hole world.







quote:

The majority of muggings and knife attacks in Granada are committed by Moroccans and Rumanians


Damn do the Morrocans and Roumanians still identifie themselfs as Moroccans and Romanians as the mug people ? what do they do? "Give me your money!!, sorry about my Spanish, I am Romanian still learning the language" [:D] Or us Romanians must have really specific facial features that gypsies or Spanish or anyother race in the world dont have if one could distinguish us as we are mugging him.[;)]

Note to self.. Do not wistle the Romanian national anthem anymore when mugging the Spanish in Granada, the are very smart people and they will identiffye our country of origin very very quic.

Must be the damn national pride that compels us to yell out at the end of every mugging :
"- U have been mugged by a Romanian !!! OLE NADIA COMANICI OLE DRACULA !! Good BYE !!


I am kidding around but if thats what goes on then thats what goes on theres no point pussyfooting around the subject and pretending it dosent happen. But u guys are smart people u guessed their nationality straight off, if u think hard enough i bet u can guess the city of birth and their surnames too, il give u a hint, theres a good chance the surname ends with SCU...[:D]

the only think that pissed me off is that theres all this romanians pulling out knifes in granada, yet we never ever get any recongnition in to Saura's flamenco movies, its always the gypsies that get all the credit.



koella -> RE: "Flamenco" by Carlos Saura (Mar. 24 2006 18:36:02)

You're really pissed of right ? [:D]



Florian -> RE: "Flamenco" by Carlos Saura (Mar. 24 2006 18:41:17)

No just amused [:D]



henrym3483 -> RE: "Flamenco" by Carlos Saura (Mar. 24 2006 18:55:51)

if anyone threatened to knife me they would'nt have the opportunity to cause my fist would be crashing through their front teeth the second after this threat came out of their mouth, and would kick them like the cowardly dogs they were until they could'nt get up.

scumbags fight with knive, real men slugg it out.
and id do this irrespective of nationality or race.

a comment like that is a threat to ones life so hit em before they do it to you.



JBASHORUN -> RE: "Flamenco" by Carlos Saura (Mar. 24 2006 19:32:07)

quote:

scumbags fight with knive, real men slugg it out.


IMHO "real men" don't fight at all. Or rather if they do, they do it with their brains.


Jb



JBASHORUN -> RE: "Flamenco" by Carlos Saura (Mar. 24 2006 19:35:03)

quote:

IMHO "real men" don't fight at all. Or rather if they do, they do it with their brains.


physical conflict solves little, and should only be used as a very last resort. I'm sure if "threatened" with a weapon there are quite a few alternatives to choose from.


Jb



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