Refretting advice? (Full Version)

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Jonnycake -> Refretting advice? (Sep. 21 2021 9:14:57)

Hello all..
I am hoping to educate myself in regard to the refretting of flamenco guitars,specifically my 1983 media luna.

This guitar has been played a lot throughout the years since the original owner bought it new from Gravina street.

It's beautiful and well rounded tone is surely a testament to how a well built guitar will respond and develop character over time..and perhaps need some maintenance along the way.

Having only experience with electric guitar refretting in the past I would appreciate advice before having this done to this particular guitar.

Thanks to acquiring a much newer and comparatively much less played newer Conde,I have been able to get the feel of new versus old( worn) frets.

I have also been advised by probably the most knowledgable and reputable luthier in my town
( Victoria,Canada) that only new frets would allow for any further adjustments I might want due to existing wear.
His speciality is old and new Martin guitars and admittedly, is not that familiar with flamencos.

Hence my seeking advice from this forum where, as it is well known, one can be well schooled in all things flamenco!

Having learned of a highly skilled luthier that specializes in refretting classical and flamencos I think I have that question answered although shipping would have to be involved to California and back.

Still I would like to hear from others how they found those nice new frets on their older guitar before I take the plunge.
cheers!
Jonnycake



Stu -> RE: Refretting advice? (Sep. 22 2021 7:38:45)

Hi, I'm not actually sure what the advice you want is?

Are you asking whether or not you should get the guitar refretted by a pro? or thinking to do it yourself? or just if its worth doing?

quote:

I have also been advised by probably the most knowledgable and reputable luthier in my town


hard to know what state they are in, but if this person with their credentials says that...then I'd say get them done. It will make a difference. I've refretted two of my guitars.. one I did twice due to some nightmare situation. Both times the new frets were immediately an obvious improvement to playability, tone, comfort. Suddenly you realise your technique is still good and all that nasy buzzing and discomfort wasnt your fault! ahha



Jonnycake -> RE: Refretting advice? (Sep. 22 2021 8:39:06)

Thanks for your reply to this post.
To clarify,this local guy certainly diagnosed that my frets were indeed worn specially around the lower registers and dressed the frets for me remarking that only new frets would allow for any further adjustment.

I just felt that since he admitted to not having a lot of experience with flamencos that should I want this done it would be best to bring it to an 'expert'.

Dan Zeff kindly gave me his recommendation of a luthier in California to get this done should I want to go ahead with it..
I was just hoping to hear that indeed,when done properly those new frets will improve action,tone and comfort with little if any downside.
Since recently having a newer(2000) Conde to compare action,fret height etc with this older model,I've begun to realize that refretting might be in order.

I want to be careful when dealing with this particular,much loved guitar as I'd hate to mess up a good thing so where else would I go for advice than this forum?
Thanks again for your help!
J



JasonM -> RE: Refretting advice? (Sep. 22 2021 15:29:10)

quote:

His speciality is old and new Martin guitars and admittedly, is not that familiar with flamencos.


Sucks to have to ship your nice guitar. Ironically I would think fretting steel strings is a more complex job dealing with radius fretboards and stainless fret wire etc. But I guess when it comes to doing the setup you might not get the same level of experience unless u told the Martin guy what measures you wanted.



Morante -> RE: Refretting advice? (Sep. 22 2021 15:51:20)

Flamenco guitars are primitive compared to a top class electric. Imagine taking a jazz guitar with radiused bound fretboard to a flamenco repairer [:@][:D]. Never ship a guitar if you can avoid it.



Jonnycake -> RE: Refretting advice? (Sep. 22 2021 17:06:33)

yay .. partial success in using the quote box..ffs!
"unless u told the Martin guy what measures you wanted."
Therein lies the rub..I wouldnt know what to tell him..
I'm also not familiar with the particular wire, gauge etc used on flamenco guitars.My comfort level would be where a lauded expert had a look and proclaimed" I know exactly what she needs..give me ______weeks and X dollars and she'll be fighting fit for another 30 years."

quote:

ORIGINAL: Morante

Flamenco guitars are primitive compared to a top class electric. Imagine taking a jazz guitar with radiused bound fretboard to a flamenco repairer [:@][:D]. Never ship a guitar if you can avoid it.

Yes indeed! I recall here locally that one of our local greats was totally adamant on who refretted his older Les Paul...the binding had to end up being perfect ,fret rounding immaculate,no damage when removing old frets etc.
re Shipping..Actually I hope to visit Dan Zeff and spend a day trying out some of his fabulous wares..I would of course bring the '83 along should I decide to go ahead with this work so it could be dropped off at this recomended Luthier..but return shipping would have to be done🤨



JasonM -> RE: Refretting advice? (Sep. 23 2021 0:35:31)

The guy could just go by the specs and setup on your Conde now. Fret wire would most likely be medium nickel silver, which is just under 1mm high after leveling the frets. Then, just some fine adjustments to the nut/and saddle, or maybe even no adjustment needed at all. I would just be wary if the guy wants to start changing/planing the fretboard and that he understands that proper setup ballpark means 7-8mm string height at the saddle.

But… it would be a good excuse to visit Zeff! I’d love to myself. The idea of shipping your Conde just makes me nervous



Jonnycake -> RE: Refretting advice? (Sep. 23 2021 3:32:19)

Hey thanks Jason for that info..

I think I'll give my local guy a call and see whats what,now that I have some specifics concerning proper fret wire et al.He does has a great reputation when it comes to those Martins and the like and of course,no shipping involved.

Incidently,over in Vancouver resides the mythical Eichi,a japanese luthier of much fame, just heard he's REALLY expensive!

Luckily both the previous owner and myself keep the left hand nails trimmed so there is no divets wore out on the fret board itself.Action is nice and comfy too atm just looking for a touch more height when digging in,possible intonation fine tuning and any magical bonuses from shiny new fret wire.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JasonM

But… it would be a good excuse to visit Zeff! I’d love to myself. The idea of shipping your Conde just makes me nervous


Was great talking to Jeff..seems both our 1rst concerts were at Jimi Hendrix so that was cool.
So many choices at his shop and since I've decided to see whether there's a market for my 2000 Felipe V, maybe one of his 'older' guitars should replace it..
Nothing better than hanging out at a guitar shop,something we use to do all the time back in the day!



Stu -> RE: Refretting advice? (Sep. 23 2021 12:33:03)

Surely this screams road trip. Take a drive to a flamenco/classical Luthier. I know North America is a big place, but refet/set up could be done in a day, stay over in a hotel, few beers then gone the next day. So no need to ship the guitar! 😀



Echi -> RE: Refretting advice? (Sep. 23 2021 16:44:20)

I am with Morante and Jason. It’s not a big deal to refret a classical/flamenco guitar if the guy doesn’t change anything in the fretboard geometry. As Stu said, avoid shipping the guitar if you can.
What is the action at the 12th fret? What is the distance between E string and top at the bridge saddle?



Jonnycake -> RE: Refretting advice? (Sep. 23 2021 18:19:19)

quote:

[/What is the action at the 12th fret? What is the distance between E string and top at the bridge saddle]

.4 cm @12th fret
1cm @top to saddle

on closer look there's a bit of fretboard wear around 2nd to 4th frets as per normal after 40 years but very shallow.

[Surely this screams road trip. Take a drive to a flamenco/classical Luthier. ]


Actually my crazy idea was to take the direct flight to Las Vegas,rent a car and drive down to Dan Zeff's place and spend the day!



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