Felipe Conde video (Full Version)

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constructordeguitarras -> Felipe Conde video (Aug. 7 2021 5:05:36)

I enjoyed this. You might too.




ernandez R -> RE: Felipe Conde video (Aug. 7 2021 8:07:00)

Ethan,

Thanx for posting this.

I think the part about time is crucial. I was shocked actually, I race and race, I've raced through thirteen guitars and feel my next need to be made slower. Luthiery has been the ultimate test of my patience and when I look at my best guitar I feel I've failed.

I've spent the small bit of spare time I've had the last two weeks in the shop resawing red and yellow cedar, many times I've just sat there and watched the wood work its way through the band saw blade, slice after slice, but mostly I set the wood up and the gravity feed, then raced to my next chore letting the cut off switch kill the saw and vacuum. one hundred and twenty or so slices: three red cedar top billets, two yellow cedar back, and two long rib length yellow ones.

I was just telling the Boss how I relished the processe and wished I could have sat there and watched each slice, the OCD slightly idiot savant mind of mine feels a kind of comfort in these tasks, the calm waiting as the wood makes its way an inch every five or six seconds, then the rush to reset the stops and shorten the quite time to it's absolute minimum, refining each move into a compact set of motions. A dance. I hate the noise but besides the movement and sawdust it's another form of progress. Eliminate the blur of the blade teeth and the aroma of the heated pitch fuming within the kerf and all you have is the song of wood making its first hint of music, a perfect pitch noted by frequencies: the amalgamation of blade teeth and tension bowing millimeter slices higher and higher as the cut uncloses.


HR



Morante -> RE: Felipe Conde video (Aug. 7 2021 16:08:09)

Interesting, but the perannial question: I wonder how many guitars these three can build in a year? How many Condes are sold in a year? Yo me quedaría con Jerónimo Pérez.



makanakijones -> RE: Felipe Conde video (Aug. 7 2021 17:46:40)

We can find other builders as good as Conde (Felipe, Mariano, Atocha?) I have a blanca guitar from Jesús de Jiménez and I challenge anyone to find a better one.
I want to try in the future, guitars from Jerónimo Pérez, Francisco Pérez and Pedro Muriel.



Echi -> RE: Felipe Conde video (Aug. 8 2021 7:38:09)

It’s not easy to keep high prices for flamenco guitars and sell many of them throughout the world. Seriously I mean.
Felipe has always been gifted in the promotion of his guitars and part of his ability is to constantly feed the Esteso myth: that wow effect you have with Conde.
It takes good work to keep alive the flame of Esteso, Paco, the old traditions, modelo Morao (I tried one btw) modelo Paco, now limited gold edition of the Paco model with sequoia top… videos with the 3 guys building etc.
It’s funny that Mariano has much more players in the belt than Felipe (Guerrero, Valencia, Riqueni, Lora, Javier Conde, Bandera) but he is not good at all with marketing, particularly internationally, as this aspect has always been managed by Felipe, since the times of Calle Felipe V.
Felipe is a man of public relations as Faustino was. To sell is an art.
Don’t mean the guitars or Felipe are bad, they are actually good, and won’t enter again in che usual discussion about the makers etc.

Recent Conde Atocha are praised by many: Rafael Cortez is a proud sponsor of Atocha (he just had a Sanchis Cortez
Model and didn’t promote it as he wants to play just his Atocha), Juan Habichuela, Chicuelo etc.
The top model are actually handmade in Madrid by 3 good luthiers.

Jesus de Jimenez, Teodoro Perez and Pedro Muriel are among the best you can get.



etta -> RE: Felipe Conde video (Aug. 8 2021 16:55:43)

I'm sorry but I have yet to play a Conde, Felipe, or otherwise, that was notable in quality. I ordered a 2000 blanca and got rid of it as soon as possible. I have played at least five others, negras and blancas, and all were dull and lifeless, and all were very heavy weights for flamenco guitars. However, most of these guitars were from the 80's or 90's. I assume the 70's etc., guitars are much better???



Ricardo -> RE: Felipe Conde video (Aug. 8 2021 18:08:25)

After hearing nuñez play felipe jr negra in Sanlucar in a room where several guitars were trading hands, and then having it my own hands, I considered the guy as a superior builder by direct comparison. His guitar indeed flawed and I pointed it out to him. Years later he and his dad were hanging out in NAMM trade show. They did not have a booth but the thing is these guys are big aficionados of music in general. I happened to run into them off site at a mini concert and set up a meeting to try felipe jr guitar the next day, which he kept at his hotel. A gentleman arrived there an hour before our meeting and handed $10,000 cash so I never got to try it. I think they are good guys doing serious work, and it’s a shame the silly rumors persist.



Echi -> RE: Felipe Conde video (Aug. 9 2021 10:41:27)

Well, this 3D is not offensive of the reputation of Felipe.
I for one purposely said he makes good guitars, which is what should matter.
Regarding the rumors, it’s part of the story with Conde since the times of the old Gravina shop.
Not only with Conde, but also with other famous Spanish makers. With different shades (and a quite wide range) you can count in the club Contreras, Bernabé, Gerundino, Hernandez y Aguado, Arcangel, and the list is still long.
It’s just the reality of a way to do business of someone in Spain which some people abroad don’t understand and try to elaborate with their own moral standards.
Then, I don’t doubt many are good people and workers committed in making the best guitars they can.



gerundino63 -> RE: Felipe Conde video (Aug. 9 2021 11:53:03)

quote:

and set up a meeting to try felipe jr guitar the next day, which he kept at his hotel. A gentleman arrived there an hour before our meeting and handed $10,000 cash so I never got to try it..


This is pretty hard to believe Ricardo. (Obviouse not wat your’re telling)



Echi -> RE: Felipe Conde video (Aug. 9 2021 14:12:30)

In Spain Felipe Jr. guitars are in the 5000 price range with special deals for musicians. I am not aware of his current target price in USA.
Just now I see Solera selling a couple of Felipe Jr. special model with higher target price but I suppose it’s something of Solera as they have raised all their prices 2000 euro up.
For the records Felipe Jr. supposedly makes about 10 guitars per year (he is now selling nr.51) while Maria about 5 per year.



Morante -> RE: Felipe Conde video (Aug. 9 2021 15:37:52)

Just as well I have my dream guitar. If not, I would follow the advice of Paco Cepero[;)]



Tom Blackshear -> RE: Felipe Conde video (Aug. 9 2021 15:54:23)

quote:

For the records Felipe Jr. supposedly makes about 10 guitars per year (he is now selling nr.51) while Maria about 5 per year.


My own personal experience is that it took me about 90 days to completely finish an instrument, it took about 50 hours for RE Brune to finish his, and I've heard that some factories take less time.

Either way we have what is called sales production at its best, and whatever it takes to sell guitars today. All is fair game.



Ricardo -> RE: Felipe Conde video (Aug. 9 2021 17:49:22)

quote:

This is pretty hard to believe Ricardo. (Obviouse not wat your’re telling)


Um, which part is hard to believe exactly? Have you played any of this guitars? Anyway, as I said, the night before we were hanging out and he said a guy was coming to check his guitar at 3 Pm so he would be in his hotel room from 2:30 or so (in Anaheim, CA the two hotels attached are always booked so it is quite a walk from convention center to any other hotels in the area, and his was a good walk). I wanted to go before that other guy to check it out myself but 2:30 was cutting too close to my playing start time at the Visenut booth. So I told him the earliest I could get over there was 4 pm. He was fine with that. So when I was done playing shot out of there fast and called him on my way, but he apologized and said don’t bother, this other guy heard I was coming to check it and insisted on paying him cash and took the guitar right away, 10K [:D]. But good news, I got to hang with Ben Woods for a bit.[8D]



RobF -> RE: Felipe Conde video (Aug. 9 2021 18:14:36)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

quote:

This is pretty hard to believe Ricardo. (Obviouse not wat your’re telling)


Um, which part is hard to believe exactly? ...

I dunno...it really does seem to be a little bit far-fetched, Ricardo. Are you sure with all this obfuscation you’re not just adding to the already bewildering amount of Ricardo Mythology floating around the internet? OK...wait...what were we talking about again? Can you clarify exactly what it is I’m supposed to be skeptical about? Otherwise, I don’t know what to say...just doesn’t seem right...



JasonM -> RE: Felipe Conde video (Aug. 10 2021 1:08:55)

quote:

I dunno...it really does seem to be a little bit far-fetched, Ricardo. Are you sure with all this obfuscation you’re not just adding to the already bewildering amount of Ricardo Mythology floating around the internet? OK...wait...what were we talking about again? Can you clarify exactly what it is I’m supposed to be skeptical about? Otherwise, I don’t know what to say...just doesn’t seem right...


Ricardo left out the part about all the groupie chicks that were following him and grabbing on his shirt when he was trying to get out of the building. Sorry ladies, there is a Conde waiting…



RobF -> RE: Felipe Conde video (Aug. 10 2021 1:35:15)

quote:

Ricardo left out the part about...

Nailed it. I knew there had to be more to the story than he was playing...



ernandez R -> RE: Felipe Conde video (Aug. 10 2021 2:06:46)

And imagine Ricardo's surprise when he looked down and realized it wasn't his shirt those ladies wanted it was his newly installed without bubble and blemish free golpedar

HR



gerundino63 -> RE: Felipe Conde video (Aug. 10 2021 10:19:16)

Hi Ricardo,

No, I never played a guitar from him, but will keep my eyes open.
The part that it was sold just before your nose for 10K.
But hey, this is America, when some good builders come over from Europe with good guitars, anything can happen.
A Devoe in the Netherlands attracks attention too.



RobF -> RE: Felipe Conde video (Aug. 10 2021 14:56:29)

quote:

The part that it was sold just before your nose for 10K.
But hey, this is America, when some good builders come over from Europe with good guitars, anything can happen.
A Devoe in the Netherlands attracks attention too.

I believe that in the State of California Guitar Weenie GAS is classified as a legitimate psychological disorder.



Plazoleño -> RE: Felipe Conde video (Aug. 14 2021 21:36:34)

There are more pro playing Mariano

Manuel Valencia , pedro sierra (a veces) , Antonio higuero , antonio Sanchez ...

and above all, the one we see in the film Manuel Parrilla , he played some 2 years with the felipe negra, which gave him, but he no longer has it and he now plays on Mariano blanca.

I have tried several of the two brothers, and I much prefer the Mariano.

of course there is rycardo moreno, diego del morao and pepe fernandez who sometimes play on the paco de lucia’s felipe model, but i think it is a commercial arrangement with solera flamenca ...



Ricardo -> RE: Felipe Conde video (Aug. 15 2021 17:15:35)

quote:

There are more pro playing Mariano


They are a bit cheaper, but I don’t really understand. I tried several and not good at all. The best guitar in the shop was a repaired student model from 2010 [:D][:D]



Echi -> RE: Felipe Conde video (Aug. 15 2021 18:59:25)

I don’t fall in the trap, but a couple of guys who worked for Calle Felipe V have been employed by Mariano.



Ricardo -> RE: Felipe Conde video (Aug. 15 2021 22:50:15)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Echi

I don’t fall in the trap, but a couple of guys who worked for Calle Felipe V have been employed by Mariano.


Well they weren’t working the day I visited. Maybe on siesta? [:D][:D][:D][:D]



ernandez R -> RE: Felipe Conde video (Aug. 16 2021 5:27:31)

Ok, it's never been clear to me, do any of the three people in the video at the top of this thread actually build guitars today?

The marketing is slick that's for sure. Young lady with poke a dot see through blouse, check. Young emo-esc dude with pants hanging half off his ass, check. It be honest after I thought about it both the kids show no more skill then those nubies in one of those three day guitar building videos that guy shilling for LMI is always posting on social media. I want to see them build a guitar from start to finish then hand it over to some players to wring out.

Like I wrote up thread I was captivated by the idea they posit about time, how it takes time to hand make a guitar, I know, most of my wood comes from logs or the firewood pile, and while its true mine might sound like fire wood, that's besides the point. My greatest lesson in lutherie is patience and taking the time to make it right every step of the way. I'm still not there.

There is a violin Luither I fallow on Instagram, she keeps a build book of every step from start to finish and hands it to the owner of each instrument she builds. I could do the same and think I would like to see the same from each so called "master" before paying $10-15k for a so called hand built instrument. I'm I crazy?

Anyway, just my two cents,

HR



Echi -> RE: Felipe Conde video (Aug. 16 2021 8:33:12)

quote:

Well they weren’t working the day I visited. Maybe on siesta?

Maybe [:)]
Each of us bases their judgements on the guitars we try and the info we get and the feelings of a day.
Maybe the big picture is different and time later we get new elements and change our mind.
That’s eventually the reason I used to dislike the Conde brothers: I tried to so many Conde dogs sold for crazy money.
Well, now a Conde happens to be my favourite guitar.

@ ernandez:
Big names in Spain have always other people working for them. As I wrote somewhere else is the inheritance of the business model of Ramirez.



Ricardo -> RE: Felipe Conde video (Aug. 16 2021 15:54:30)

quote:

The marketing is slick that's for sure. Young lady with poke a dot see through blouse, check. Young emo-esc dude with pants hanging half off his ass, check. It be honest after I thought about it both the kids show no more skill then those nubies in one of those three day guitar building videos that guy shilling for LMI is always posting on social media. I want to see them build a guitar from start to finish then hand it over to some players to wring out.


As I said before, the guitar the “emo kid” supposedly built and brought to nuñez class was the best sounding/playing guitar in the room (some 30 nice guitars in there), although it had what I consider a rookie flaw. If he didn’t build it, who the hell did? I would love to know who builds guitars like that in anonymity and let’s others take credit, yet can also produce obvious flaws at the same time? Occam’s razor tells me the simplest explanation is that kid actually built it. Maybe he has help but Jesus whoever is the “helper” is no joke. The fact his guitar sold at NAMM and his dads did not adds street cred, but I never got to try the thing. Trust me if I play one of his guitars and it’s a dud I would let you know.



RobF -> RE: Felipe Conde video (Aug. 16 2021 16:51:40)

quote:

Maybe he has help but Jesus whoever is the “helper” is no joke.

I suspect he has access to advice from the best of the best of the older Madrid makers.

When I visited, Manuel Cáseres was hanging out in the shop - as a matter of fact, it was he who saw me peering into the basement window and waved me in. They welcomed me into their shop with warmth and, in the hours I spent there, we looked over some of their recent wood purchases, chatted about various bracing styles and dimensioning strategies, and basically just hung out until closing time in an atmosphere that was congenial, open, and friendly. Afterwards, Filipe Jr took me on a small Tapas crawl and walking tour of old Madrid. When I remarked that they were treating me like royalty, which I found astounding, his response was that we both love making guitars, this is fun, and what more reason do we need? All in all, we spent about six hours hanging out together and all I can say about it is I really like that guy and I wish him the best.



Echi -> RE: Felipe Conde video (Aug. 17 2021 9:37:14)

Nice experience.
I met Manuel in a couple of occasions and he wasn’t too talkative even thoug he was nice. No beer and tapas though [:D]
His son is a good maker also.



JasonM -> RE: Felipe Conde video (Aug. 17 2021 15:28:11)

quote:

Afterwards, Filipe Jr took me on a small Tapas crawl and walking tour of old Madrid. When I remarked that they were treating me like royalty, which I found astounding, his response was that we both love making guitars, this is fun, and what more reason do we need?


That’s awesome! I’m hoping Maria will give me the tour. Maybe if I stare in the shop window? 😝



Echi -> RE: Felipe Conde video (Aug. 18 2021 7:25:11)

I’ll give you a hint. On insta there is a new account of the man himself called felipeconde.cavia
You can take a look and may catch with your eyes many details of his guitars and methods. Sorry Jason, Maria is not there.
I tell you, I admire the man as a marketing genius..
Anyway, the trend of the moment is the top in redwood with the old bracing pattern used on the guitar of Paco (which btw is similar to the pattern used in all the Conde guitars from 75 to 89 and recalls an old pattern used by Esteso).
If you look at the website of Solera, it pops up clear that behind there is a new marketing agreement with Jordi, who commissioned and launched a special premium line of Felipe’s with higher target price of the F Conde‘model 74’ (You cannot call it De Lucia model as at the time Felipe was denied by Paco to use his name in any new Conde model: different story).
Now redwood (sequoia in Spanish) is having a new spring because the main wood shop of Madrid (Madinter) is occasionally selling an aged stock of redwood. Coincidences of life.
For those interested in redwood the man to look at is Paulino Bernabè, who made many attempts in 1976-79.
Alan Caruth wrote also about the advantages and drawbacks or redwood as a top.



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