That opening falseta was a head scratcher…. Didn’t think he was ever gonna get to E [:D]
I always only knew this version of Rosas with the E minor chord, but now I’m listening closer those tonos seem imposed on a melody that can stay in major.
Richard Jernigan -> RE: La Rosa (Aug. 4 2021 5:11:24)
Great performance. Thanks Morante.
I learned Rosas copping it off a Niñ0 Ricardo LP, since there weren't any cantaores/as in Austin in the late 1950s-early 1960s.
It was a joint effort with Eddie Freeman students George Gamez and Jerry Lobdill. I have a yellowed manuscript beside the keyboard, in Jerry's highly legible handwriting. In my own hand at the top it says "Rosas (Ricardo) from Epic recording Musica Flamenca." I'm pretty sure I still have the LP. Though my LPs are now unpacked they aren't organized yet, so i haven't shuffled through them to find it.
I've looked for the piece on the internet before, but only found it this time, titled "Mellizo."
It's in E-major, with excursions into other tonalities at about 1:17 and 1:44.
RNJ
Ricardo -> RE: La Rosa (Aug. 4 2021 16:09:25)
BarkellWH -> RE: La Rosa (Aug. 4 2021 16:27:58)
quote:
I've looked for the piece on the internet before, but only found it this time, titled "Mellizo."
The photo on the album cover shows Nino Ricardo playing left-handed. Was it possible the negative was reversed? All the photos I have seen of him show him playing right-handed. Was he ambidextrous playing the guitar?
Bill
Morante -> RE: La Rosa (Aug. 4 2021 16:51:01)
The great maestro Juan Martín (aka John Martin) says that Alegrías en Mi are also known as Rosas. He says " the passage in E menor was being played in el Corral de la Morería about 1963 and quickly became popular with other guitaristas."
This is how flamenco becomes deformed: La Rosa originally was a cante, now mostly forgotten. Many of the variations of tono are inventions of guitarrists.
Richard Jernigan -> RE: La Rosa (Aug. 4 2021 23:56:43)
quote:
ORIGINAL: BarkellWH
quote:
I've looked for the piece on the internet before, but only found it this time, titled "Mellizo."
The photo on the album cover shows Nino Ricardo playing left-handed. Was it possible the negative was reversed? All the photos I have seen of him show him playing right-handed. Was he ambidextrous playing the guitar?
Bill
I didn't even notice. Of course, Niño Ricardo played right handed. A new low in flamenco guitar re-issues.
RNJ
Richard Jernigan -> RE: La Rosa (Aug. 5 2021 3:14:54)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Morante
This is how flamenco becomes deformed: La Rosa originally was a cante, now mostly forgotten. Many of the variations of tono are inventions of guitarrists.
Don Ramon was deforming quite a bit back in the 78 rpm days.
Like Ricardo I was used to the version that modulates to E-minor occasionally. Mariana Cornejo is the first I have noticed who stays in E-major all the way through--but I can't swear that nobody was doing that during my first trip to Spain 63 years ago.
Didn't take much searching though, to find La Niña de los Peines staying in E-major all the way through:
Is Mariana's version deformed relative to this?
RNJ
Morante -> RE: La Rosa (Aug. 5 2021 13:21:40)
Here is another version[;)]
Ricardo -> RE: La Rosa (Aug. 5 2021 15:15:10)
quote:
This is how flamenco becomes deformed: La Rosa originally was a cante, now mostly forgotten. Many of the variations of tono are inventions of guitarrists.
I have looked at very early wax cylinder recordings of cantes I was studying to see how things evolved, and yes it is often the guitar that adds things. Do you know who might have been the first to record la Rosa?
Ricardo -> RE: La Rosa (Aug. 5 2021 15:27:37)
quote:
Is Mariana's version deformed relative to this?
Well first of all it is a different melody altogether. But what is interesting is that the first phrase is major, but the concluding phrase “terciopelo” for example that repeats has the flat third implying minor key change after all (the guitar is ignoring the alteration each time). She is doing each verse the same way. Because it is fast buleria the change flies by.
Could be posible that is just a variant of the guitarras: it is said that is from Sanlúcar, but it could be an invention de a cantaor who like the harmony of the guitar[;)]
Could be posible that is just a variant of the guitarras: it is said that is from Sanlúcar, but it could be an invention de a cantaor who like the harmony of the guitar[;)]
Nice blog. Is there further reading regarding Pericon’s anecdote regarding the flamenco partituras of 1512? I know they sort of make fun of that, claiming Cadiz took the best songs and sent the rest to jerez and Sevilla 😂😂😂! But I’m sure flamencologists have looked into what the origin of that music might have been exactly.
Nevermind I found the source. 1975 book Las mil y una historia de pericón
