devilhand -> The average duration of cante in general and for each palo (over time) (Jan. 28 2021 14:13:57)
I want to ask questions regarding the following 2 points.
(1) What I noticed is that older cante recordings (let's say from 1900 to 1960) are shorter than newer ones (from 1980 until now). I would estimate the average length of older cantes is 2-3 minutes. Nowadays if you listen to cante they're usually longer I would say 3-6 minutes. What do you think are the reasons for this? I also want to know if there's been a steady increase in the duration over time or if there was a leap somewhere in the 80's or 90's because of some historical event or a influential flamenco cante album.
I don't know if it's true for each palo. Anyhow, I want to discuss this for each palo as well.
(2) Are there any differences in the duration between palos? Which palo lasts longer and why?
Please note that we're talking flamenco cante here. Not about solo flamenco.
Ricardo -> RE: The average duration of cante in general and for each palo (over time) (Jan. 28 2021 23:53:02)
Assuming you know what a metronome is for, the answer is tempo. The tempo has slowed down. With the decrease of the metronome marking you have an INCREASE of the time it takes to get through a piece of music. This was done deliberately by dancers for drama. Now we have to deal with it. Diego del Gastor also played some slow dramatic guitar but I dont’ consider him influential on the cante the way baile was.
Richard Jernigan -> RE: The average duration of cante in general and for each palo (over time) (Jan. 29 2021 0:28:27)
From 1900 to about 1952 most cante recordings were on 10-inch (25cm) 78 rpm discs, which had a maximum recording time around 3 minutes. When the 33 1/3 rpm vinyl LPs became available, much longer recording times were practical.
RNJ
kitarist -> RE: The average duration of cante in general and for each palo (over time) (Jan. 29 2021 5:08:15)
quote:
From 1900 to about 1952 most cante recordings were on 10-inch (25cm) 78 rpm discs, which had a maximum recording time around 3 minutes.
That was my first thought too. Argentine tango length (records) had the same relationship to recording media.
mark indigo -> RE: The average duration of cante in general and for each palo (over time) (Jan. 29 2021 18:08:06)
quote:
From 1900 to about 1952 most cante recordings were on 10-inch (25cm) 78 rpm discs, which had a maximum recording time around 3 minutes. When the 33 1/3 rpm vinyl LPs became available, much longer recording times were practical.
quote:
That was my first thought too.
And mine, sometimes you get a track where the guitarist plays a falseta at the end of the track, after the last letra, I guess to fill up the remaining space on the recording.
Ricardo -> RE: The average duration of cante in general and for each palo (over time) (Jan. 29 2021 18:36:29)
It is a nice try guys, but false equivalence.
Vs. the longer track same type of cante:
Point being the type of media have no bearing if the cantes are performed in a similar fashion...ie, the number of cantes and falsetas and the speed at which they are executed. An overall sampling would show that Solea’s come in 3s, malaguena or levante in 2s, etc...so why the general increase in playback time? The slower delivery is the main cause. And there, the idea that old cantaores were “racing against the media clock” doesn’t hold water, because they could simply decrease the number of cantes performed if going slow were the thing the wanted to do like they do today.
kitarist -> RE: The average duration of cante in general and for each palo (over time) (Jan. 29 2021 18:52:07)
quote:
It is a nice try guys
[:D][:D]
devilhand -> RE: The average duration of cante in general and for each palo (over time) (Jan. 30 2021 14:44:20)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Richard Jernigan
From 1900 to about 1952 most cante recordings were on 10-inch (25cm) 78 rpm discs, which had a maximum recording time around 3 minutes. When the 33 1/3 rpm vinyl LPs became available, much longer recording times were practical.
RNJ
Thanks for the information. Just learnt something new. I wonder if this limited artistic freedom of both tocaors and cantaors. As a consequence we got shorter falsetas or letras etc.
My first thought was after flamenco got exposed to different music genres, in particular to jazz, cante accompaniment started to use more sophisticated chords and chord changes which led to a longer accompaniment in the later decades.
