Ethan D's stunning lemon yellow shellac? (Full Version)

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ernandez R -> Ethan D's stunning lemon yellow shellac? (Jan. 15 2021 3:25:39)

Ethan D's lemon yellow shellac?

Was up late the other night perusing the Foro into years past and came across a few Flamenco builds on the old show your work thread:

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=213032&p=5&tmode=1&smode=1

Anyway I became intrigued by Sr. Deutsch's yellow shellac and was wondering if anyone wanted to share the process. The guitar, one of them anyway, is on page 6 half way down.

Not sure how much the yellow is from the lighting or camera cooler balance by the time it makes is way to m eyes via an iDevice.

Was assuming a spit coat of blond to seal, then padding on just enough yellow for the color, then topping with more super blond so leveling etc will not cut through the color?

What is the name of said yellow shellac, where to get, etc.

Grrr, couldn't get photo to load, my device screen shots int *.pict or somthing like that...


HR




RobF -> RE: Ethan D's stunning lemon yellow shellac? (Jan. 15 2021 4:56:05)

Following with interest.

I started spray tinting my Blancas with tinted shellac this summer. I keep meaning to do a thread on what I learned, but never got around to it. I still can, if there’s interest, just have to get myself organized. Or maybe this thread is a good enough place for it, if it starts playing out that way. I’m not sure spraying ends up being any more efficient at achieving the end than padding, however.

I’ve pretty well moved into the camp of having some level of tint on my Blancas, at this point, I just like how an old gold finish looks.




JasonM -> RE: Ethan D's stunning lemon yellow shellac? (Jan. 15 2021 16:35:20)

Ethans guitars have amazing color. I remember at one point he was using button shellac and de waxing it, I’ll let the man speak for himself!




Ricardo -> RE: Ethan D's stunning lemon yellow shellac? (Jan. 15 2021 18:06:50)

I had one in my hands and they are quite handsome in person just like the pics and feel great.




ernandez R -> RE: Ethan D's stunning lemon yellow shellac? (Jan. 16 2021 17:37:30)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RobF

Following with interest.

I started spray tinting my Blancas with tinted shellac this summer. I keep meaning to do a thread on what I learned, but never got around to it. I still can, if there’s interest, just have to get myself organized. Or maybe this thread is a good enough place for it, if it starts playing out that way. I’m not sure spraying ends up being any more efficient at achieving the end than padding, however.

I’ve pretty well moved into the camp of having some level of tint on my Blancas, at this point, I just like how an old gold finish looks.


Rob,
Would love to hear how you go about spraying color into your shellac

I kept bumping into hints that many were spraying shellac but it seemed no one wanted to admit it publicly. I have this really nice Iwata 100 gun I used for spraying metal flake on airplanes back in the day. Shoots whisky based finishes ok, still needs a smaller tip then the 1.1 on it now but I manage.
Like any finish aggressive leveling early in the process pays dividends toward the end. Still coming to terms with it eleven guitars in and like every aspect of Luthery patience patience patience

HR




RobF -> RE: Ethan D's stunning lemon yellow shellac? (Jan. 17 2021 4:54:52)

Hi HR, I’ve been a little under the weather recently, but I’ve been wanting to post about this for a while now, so I’ll try to get the ball rolling tomorrow with some kind of introductory post. Maybe we could turn this thread into a Tinted shellac/French Polish discussion. I know a lot of guys are doing it all with padding, but I also suspect there might be more spraying going on for the tint coat than one would think.

This could be an interesting discussion. Even about how the tinting is achieved, this summer I experimented a lot with aniline dyes and the like, I don’t mind sharing my findings.

That Iwata is a really nice gun, BTW.




ernandez R -> RE: Ethan D's stunning lemon yellow shellac? (Jan. 18 2021 23:44:55)

Sorry to hear about your pain... No easy way around it but best to get off the pills soon as practicable, do to complactions my Docter lost track of how long I had been in what and it was not a lot of fun getting off them. But man I could play for hours 4-6 at times with narry a tingle n my fingers and joints. Sadly I couldn't read music, more sad was I couldn't read anything, couldnt focus on a paragraph...and I live to read.

So I figured analine dye was a path some were using. Take your time and whenever you feel up to it...

I've been shooting a paint gun since I was a young man, killed my share of brain cells I suppose do to the chemicals, got T the point my eyesite let me down and the newer paints just didn't lay down the way Imeron and Ditzler did. Open a can of Imeron today and it smells just like cheap rattlecan and its just as durable. PPG bought out Ditzler some time ago and there are a couple quality paints if one wanted to spray solid bodies like our scribe is preparing to do.

Been looking at some product on shellac.net, dewaxed blond and gossamer mmtm . An old post Ethan says he gets his shellac from here, do recall him talking about de waxing but not sure it was the yellow ish shellac he was using, couldnt dig up that post. Hoping he finds the time to check in and set us straight although I understand some secrets must be kept ;)

HR




constructordeguitarras -> RE: Ethan D's stunning lemon yellow shellac? (Jan. 19 2021 5:47:05)

I get most of my shellac from shellac.net

I think the color in question is from Kusmi button shellac. It is a caramel color, not as yellow as it appears in the photo on the Foro on my computer. However, shellac.net does sell a lemon yellow shellac. I think it's called lemon yellow shellac.

I have found that all the shellac I have bought from everywhere has a lot of wax in it, which can cause the finish to do undesired things. Even "dewaxed" shellac. And especially button shellac. The way I deal with it is I bought a cheap centrifuge and I centrifuge my shellac solutions, which takes out the wax. I put the tubes in, set the timer for 30 minutes, turn the speed to max, and run out of my workshop while it starts to spin. It's scary because centrifuges can explode, especially if the filled tubes are not all of the same weight.

I would have replied sooner but for some reason I still don't receive any notifications from the Foro. Oh, wait, I guess there was no notification, but I wanted to throw that in.

--Ethan

P.S.: Now that I've looked at the pictures again, I realize that that is my personal guitar that I play all the time. Definitely Kusmi button lac.

P.P.S.: Thanks Jason and Ricardo.




ernandez R -> RE: Ethan D's stunning lemon yellow shellac? (Jan. 19 2021 6:34:12)

Thanks for sharing Ethan, kinda thought part of the color was just how they resolve in our device windows.

I’ll order up some and make up a test panel or two and see if it is what I’m looking for. Thinking less lemon and more butter yellow, who knows yellow might be the new orange.

Hopped over to shellac.net again fir a look and they list two kasumi button, one is listed as #1Caramel amber and the other #2Warm brown. Both do not seem like they will not yield the yellow tone in your guitars, but what do I know.

Going to get a couple different types and see what I get.

Perhaps while our foro scribe is waiting for the paint to dry on his new guitar he could work on the notification system ;)

HR




JasonM -> RE: Ethan D's stunning lemon yellow shellac? (Jan. 19 2021 16:30:19)

I got just about all the flavors of shellac flakes from shellac.net. I’d like to try that button lac but I don’t have a centerfuge or a phd




constructordeguitarras -> RE: Ethan D's stunning lemon yellow shellac? (Jan. 20 2021 2:37:26)

You can mix different colors of shellac to get custom colors, too. I find it best to do it by weighing out the dry shellacs and keeping track of the ratios.




ernandez R -> RE: Ethan D's stunning lemon yellow shellac? (Jan. 20 2021 3:09:01)

Jason,
Which shellac did you end up using?

HR




JasonM -> RE: Ethan D's stunning lemon yellow shellac? (Jan. 20 2021 20:14:00)

I just used ye ol platina. I was too scared to use color and wasn’t getting the results I wanted with my test. But for my next one I’d like to use some color. Maybe there is another way to Dewax the button shellac without special equipment?



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constructordeguitarras -> RE: Ethan D's stunning lemon yellow shellac? (Jan. 23 2021 3:13:15)

quote:

Maybe there is another way to Dewax the button shellac without special equipment?


The usual way is to filter through filter paper in a funnel. It takes a long time. https://www.finewoodworking.com/forum/filtering-shellac




constructordeguitarras -> RE: Ethan D's stunning lemon yellow shellac? (Jan. 23 2021 3:17:56)

quote:

I was too scared to use color and wasn’t getting the results I wanted with my test


I have had some crummy results with darker shellacs on spruce but no problem on cypress or maple. Often I use a lighter color on the spruce soundboard than on the back and sides and neck. Your platina looks nice and the woods will darken with age.




Andy Culpepper -> RE: Ethan D's stunning lemon yellow shellac? (Jan. 23 2021 3:33:05)

quote:

Your platina looks nice and the woods will darken with age.


I agree, and it's a nice feeling to "earn" that patina after a few years. I haven't had great results using darker shellacs (some quite bad results actually). The best way I've found to add some color to Spruce or Cypress is to very carefully apply some alcohol-based stain (like ColorTone Vintage Amber) to the bare wood, then FP over that as normal with blonde or slightly darker shellac.




ernandez R -> RE: Ethan D's stunning lemon yellow shellac? (Jan. 23 2021 6:17:14)

Jason,
She sure came out nice. I really enjoyed following your build progress, gave me much to think about as I was building mine.
I never bothered to put a finish on my first but who knows, you know, in my spare time.

Polishing up a couple parlors now, some days I win and others I take a step or two back. I find I work it too long and it gets to soft: patience.

Expecting to see you start your next guitar soon.

HR




ernandez R -> RE: Ethan D's stunning lemon yellow shellac? (Jan. 23 2021 6:23:54)

quote:

ORIGINAL: constructordeguitarras

quote:

Maybe there is another way to Dewax the button shellac without special equipment?


The usual way is to filter through filter paper in a funnel. It takes a long time. https://www.finewoodworking.com/forum/filtering-shellac


Ethan,
I seem to recall reading how some let the shellac just settle in a jar then pour off the top leaving the wax on the bottom? I don't recall how long they let it settle.

Think I'll stay away from the non de-waxed for now.

HR




ernandez R -> RE: Ethan D's stunning lemon yellow shellac? (Jan. 23 2021 6:30:01)

Andy,
I'm not super interested in darker colors per say, just wanted to add a touch, or rather hint of color, anything but orange for dogs sake, but thought trying to stain the wood directly would be problematic to get uniform coverage with the different woods, glue lines etc?

To be honest I'm thinking less and less of the idea, I like the natural tone the woods take over time. Had to do some sanding on the top of two that had hung mostly near a window while my foot healed, anyway there are some slight variations near the edge Es of the bridge and fretboard where I was notmaboemto scrape all the sun tanned wood. Darn tops were on the verge, if not too far already to be taking more off.

HR




JasonM -> RE: Ethan D's stunning lemon yellow shellac? (Jan. 23 2021 15:38:36)

quote:

The usual way is to filter through filter paper in a funnel. It takes a long time. https://www.finewoodworking.com/forum/filtering-shellac


What about something like this?


Thanks! Ernandez, come on we want to see an orange guitar!



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constructordeguitarras -> RE: Ethan D's stunning lemon yellow shellac? (Jan. 23 2021 16:38:50)

quote:

What about something like this?


Yes, that may be the best way to filter it, a Buchner funnel and a vacuum pump. I tried it with a water aspirator, which apparently didn't give enough suction. The idea of using a noisy vacuum pump reminded me too much of chemist jobs I've had. I've never seen a hand pump like that. Maybe it's good. I think woodworkers usually use gravity filtration through a cone filter. Perhaps by its nature wax tends to clog filter paper.




constructordeguitarras -> RE: Ethan D's stunning lemon yellow shellac? (Jan. 23 2021 17:15:18)

quote:

we want to see an orange guitar!


I have found that orange shellac works well on spruce, so I don't consider it to be a dark shellac. Maybe borderline. I wanted to post a picture, but can't seem to satisfy the size requirement no matter what, so please see: http://edluthier.com/blog/flamenca-blanca-guitar-for-alex




ernandez R -> RE: Ethan D's stunning lemon yellow shellac? (Jan. 24 2021 6:30:25)

Well, I do have a vacuum pump I used for carbon fiber model airplanes collecting dust somewhere.

Anyway, got inspired, took my #1 out to the shop and prepped the back for shellac. Turns out I had some packets of aniline die but it had a vary fine mica glitter too. Pretty ;)

Mixed up about six parts yellow and one part orange in about an inch of alcohol then added the same of some Zasnar can shellac.
Wiped about four wet coats with a paper towel, let it dry for a bit, blocked it with some 400 cross grain wet with more shellac as a sort of pore filler. Let it dry some then padded for a while, leveled with 400 again with olive oil, wiped it with a paper towel then padded some more.
In a video S Faulk put up yesterday he was padding a lot slower then I ever did, made a big difference once I had the discipline to not speed up.
Leveled again with a small block, six layers of thin paper towel, 600 this time,
Getting just a touch of yellow tone, looked a bit splotchy but evened our when I leveled.
Padded some more, almost instantly loaded up the weave of my manuca. Damn... got greedy, should have slowed down or stopped for an hour. Liberated some filled pores ...

HR







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JasonM -> RE: Ethan D's stunning lemon yellow shellac? (Jan. 24 2021 16:13:20)

Alright Ernandez! So your number 1 has been in bare wood form all this time collecting body oils?!

Thanks for the tips, Ethan. Yes those handheld vacuum pumps are common automotive tools for bleeding lines and such. Not too expensive. I was wondering about a coffee filter clogging. I see in that Fine Woodworking link you posted someone mentioned a course filter like cheesecloth. Maybe then finish off with a coffee filter? Idk...




constructordeguitarras -> RE: Ethan D's stunning lemon yellow shellac? (Jan. 24 2021 18:36:20)

quote:

I see in that Fine Woodworking link you posted someone mentioned a course filter like cheesecloth. Maybe then finish off with a coffee filter? Idk...

I've had bad results with all of the filtration methods I can think of. Amazingly, a centrifuge just like mine is sold by Walmart: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Oshion-800-1D-Desktop-Electric-Centrifuge-Machine-Laboratory-Medical-Practice-Low-Speed-Centrifuge-110V-US-Plug/962933828?wmlspartner=wmtlabs&adid=22222222222327313549&wmlspartner=wmtlabs&wl0=e&wl1=o&wl2=c&wl3=75041786832969&wl4=pla-4578641330527405&wl5=&wl6=&wl7=&+wl10=Walmart&wl12=962933828_10000012489&wl14=small%20centrifute%20for%20sale&veh=sem&msclkid=e90de9a40b101ffe651c89a9b6b3b832




ernandez R -> RE: Ethan D's stunning lemon yellow shellac? (Jan. 25 2021 2:57:35)

Jason,
Ya, over two years as my daily player and she was getting a little grubby around the edges.
Had to do a few hours behind the snow blower today, it’s good therapy, but got in the shop for a few sessions of the yellow. Working anourher with blond so I went back and forth. Actually doing a few more cause I’m a glutton or something like that :/ Headingvback to the shop after some tasty salmon the boss broiled up, and I’ll have at her some more.

Hard to get an accurate color with my fluorescent lighting and LED spot.
HR





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ernandez R -> RE: Ethan D's stunning lemon yellow shellac? (Jan. 25 2021 5:41:12)

Done for the eve.

Photo is same wood from same tree. I’m likeing the yellow. Played with the foto some to get the colors mostly correct.

There is some runout middle of the upper bought so it sucked in more color, think I should have sealed with blond first before the colored shellac, I mostly knew that but was having too much fun to be bothered. The Boss says I better do the rest of her or I’ll regret et ;)

HR



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JasonM -> RE: Ethan D's stunning lemon yellow shellac? (Jan. 26 2021 23:14:37)

quote:

I've had bad results with all of the filtration methods I can think of. Amazingly, a centrifuge just like mine is sold by Walmart: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Oshion-800-1D-Desktop-Electric-Centrifuge-Machine-Laboratory-Medical-Practice-Low-Speed-Centrifuge-110V-US-Plug/962933828?wmlspartner=wmtlabs&adid=22222222222327313549&wmlspartner=wmtlabs&wl0=e&wl1=o&wl2=c&wl3=75041786832969&wl4=pla-4578641330527405&wl5=&wl6=&wl7=&+wl10=Walmart&wl12=962933828_10000012489&wl14=small%20centrifute%20for%20sale&veh=sem&msclkid=e90de9a40b101ffe651c89a9b6b3b832


Wow, thats cheap for a centrifuge.




Andy Culpepper -> RE: Ethan D's stunning lemon yellow shellac? (Jan. 27 2021 5:00:51)

quote:

Andy,
I'm not super interested in darker colors per say, just wanted to add a touch, or rather hint of color, anything but orange for dogs sake, but thought trying to stain the wood directly would be problematic to get uniform coverage with the different woods, glue lines etc?


That's pretty much what I do, just a touch. If the wood is prepped really well it can take the stain evenly, unless there are areas of runout that absorb differently. I haven't noticed a problem with glue lines.




JasonM -> RE: Ethan D's stunning lemon yellow shellac? (Jan. 27 2021 16:33:18)

I think it’s looking good, Ernandez. It looks like a touch of orange from the pictures of the back. Looks flamenco!




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