Original design - based on 1850’s to Jaleo painting era (Full Version)

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estebanana -> Original design - based on 1850’s to Jaleo painting era (Dec. 2 2020 1:36:10)

I designed a small body guitar based on mid 19th century sizes and look. I studied photos of guitars by Torres, Pernas, later 19th century Spanish work from Andalusia and Madrid. Plus looked at Benedid in Cadiz and as many others as I could.
Rather than make exact copies of a particular guitar I opted for an original design based around the guitars of that day. I find exact copies or bench copies to be difficult mainly because I can’t get a good model to study long enough. Ideally I’d like to study a guitar for several weeks in order to copy it.

But I have seen enough guitars from this time period in person to be able to use the methods and aesthetic awareness of this time period. I know they often used discarded mill ends and odd wood for making thin liners, and that the transition carving, evident also in photos, between the neck and headstock is different than how we do it today, etc. I compiled a mental list of period details and designed as if I were just another maker in that era seeing the guitars around me. I tried to forget modern guitars while designed it. And didn’t use items like premade liners and did use tools like toothed planes.

Here are some photos of one of them-







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estebanana -> RE: Original design - based on 1850’s to Jaleo painting era (Dec. 2 2020 1:38:10)

640 scale
Indian rosewood- spruce top- maple lines in rosette and maple binding.





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RobF -> RE: Original design - based on 1850’s to Jaleo painting era (Dec. 2 2020 2:58:16)

Really nice! I like it.




davewphx -> RE: Original design - based on 1850’s to Jaleo painting era (Dec. 2 2020 19:01:40)

Beautiful Stephen. Can you tell us the approx dimensions? It has a baroque quality I think.




ernandez R -> RE: Original design - based on 1850’s to Jaleo painting era (Dec. 2 2020 20:19:54)

I’ve built a parlor loosely based on the ‘63 Torres Brune wrote up in Vintage Guitar magazine. Not as nice or fancy as yours Stephan but still surprisingly nice tonally.
For some reason I made the scale 23” instead of the original 25”, brain fart I suppose?
I found the third string, the G, is a little funky with a hint of ukalalie.
Just now finishing up the second one and might have the strings on her sans shellac tomorrow morning.
They really are a perfect size for kicking back feet up and the sound is surprisingly full, the shorter scale means first position finger stretch cords come easier if it is a little tight toward the twelfth fret.
I too have been tempted to mimic the early Torres style head stock, I don’t care for the later tombstone style, perhaps a slight variation.
I do find your fretboard extension over the sound hole aesthetically incongruent but that’s just a matter of personal taste.
I believe this is your second or third of this size and after playing her some are there any changes you have considered for the next? My goal is to get daringly close to the original lightly braced and thinness of Torres’ structure but getting there a little at a time: one back brace, no tone bars, and .8mm ribs takes bravery if not total madness!

HR



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estebanana -> RE: Original design - based on 1850’s to Jaleo painting era (Dec. 3 2020 2:43:06)

Yeah I’m busy now, but I’ll get back to you with thoughts




estebanana -> RE: Original design - based on 1850’s to Jaleo painting era (Dec. 3 2020 6:43:28)

I read a lot of material like this Vintage Guitar essay by Brune’ about the 1863 instrument with the non Three Hills headstock

https://www.google.co.jp/amp/s/www.vintageguitar.com/3434/antonio-de-torres-1863/amp/




JasonM -> RE: Original design - based on 1850’s to Jaleo painting era (Dec. 3 2020 15:35:58)

Is this one of dem der backpackin’ geetars?




estebanana -> RE: Original design - based on 1850’s to Jaleo painting era (Dec. 4 2020 1:30:16)

No it’s not a backpacking guitar. It’s a real concert intended instrument. It’s a period piece covering that time from 1840’s to early 20th century when a tournavoz may have been used. And the music would be mostly stuff like Tarrega and his many seldom talk about contemporaries. Or without the tournavoz ( I would reckon) this is probably something that players that worked in flamenco and popular music would recognize as a common guitar.

It’s likely that before the Torres size guitar got wide attention that guitars like this were fairly normal and during the time Torres became more known late 19th century, this guitar remains on the scene. It’s a lot like what I imagine the guitars hanging in the back wall in the Jaleo painting were like. And if the tournavoz was not in this one, with a tap plate you could play this guitar in a cuadro today with no problem.

The first one I made on this plantilla was just under 3” thick, and thin cypress body, spruce top with five fans. It could be heard down the street. Small, flamenco sounding and LOUD



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mark indigo -> RE: Original design - based on 1850’s to Jaleo painting era (Dec. 4 2020 8:56:53)

quote:

It’s a lot like what I imagine the guitars hanging in the back wall in the Jaleo painting were like.

always wondered about the guitars in that picture.

The Vintage Guitar essay by Brune’ was interesting, thanks.

It's in no way a criticism, so pls don't be offended (and I realise from the article that it comes from Torres), but the headstock reminds me of Batman!




estebanana -> RE: Original design - based on 1850’s to Jaleo painting era (Dec. 5 2020 0:33:01)

I’m not worried or offended it looks like Batman. I was offended and neurotic when another guitar maker in San Francisco said my old now disused headstock looked like that stupid Christian dove symbol. I changed it after that.




El Burdo -> RE: Original design - based on 1850’s to Jaleo painting era (Dec. 5 2020 20:35:25)

Very interesting バナナサン。There are quite a few of these in the Evans book- this one in particular, though I think Panormo could change the headstock here - it looks a bit sus.



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ernandez R -> RE: Original design - based on 1850’s to Jaleo painting era (Dec. 5 2020 21:43:06)

quote:

ORIGINAL: El Burdo

Very interesting バナナサン。There are quite a few of these in the Evans book- this one in particular, though I think Panormo could change the headstock here - it looks a bit sus.





And those mechanical tuners are for the weak...

Just made up a set of pegs for my latest "Veintitres" 23 inch scale. Not finished but I couldn't help splashing some linseed oil on them to get an idea how they would look and how much more I wanted to carve away.

A note about the Panormo guitar and my first guitar. I made the headstock out of Hickory, what the heck did I know, but what I've noticed is the vary dense, say less dampening material seems to have made a big difference in the tone. Please don't ask me for much more than that. My next guitar I intend to build the headstock out of Hickory again.

So i was surprised to read that Panormo was making his headstock out of maple and had to wonder if he preferred the sonic properties? Of course I'm using pegs.

HR



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ernandez R -> RE: Original design - based on 1850’s to Jaleo painting era (Dec. 5 2020 22:03:49)

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

I’m not worried or offended it looks like Batman. I was offended and neurotic when another guitar maker in San Francisco said my old now disused headstock looked like that stupid Christian dove symbol. I changed it after that.


Stephan,
I feel like a total cop out with my chop saw flush headstock... was thinking less dove and more frog a la Rivera. I have a few sketches in a drawer somewhere...

HR




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