Beni2 -> RE: RIP Brook Zern 1941-2019 (Dec. 18 2021 18:15:46)
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They are them guys that write theory text books etc. bII-i implies minor tonality and Neapolitan descriptions come, not “Phrygian cadence” (I guess Schenkerian use Phrygian II as a description). The Aug6 occurs when you raise the root of iv6 creating voice leading or leading tone. The same type of leading tone produced that is necessary to have V-i in minor keys. Hence functional harmony. The functional aspect of Phrygian is ignored by the collective “they” I was referring to, hence the bizarre nomenclature. It is simply understood that Phrygian doesn’t function. But we flamencos know it does. And we don’t need descending tetra chords to cadence. F-Gm-A functions por medio just as well (or better?), as you know. We often strengthen our Gm-A with a leading tone chord of some type…no different than if we were in A minor rather than A Phrygian. (F G7 G#dim Am for example is the Aeolian equivalent getting the tonal treatment). My issue is that “they” don’t acknowledge Phrygian function like we use it in Flamenco, and you can point to historical examples all you want. “They” can include jazzers and their tritone subs who also don’t acknowledge that as a phrygian functional device. "They" who? Do you have a specific reference. I suggest you read Christensen's volume on music theory, the Towards Tonality collection, Ellis incredible book on the augmented sixth chord, the What is a Cadence Book. Whatever you learned as an undergrad, I assure you, much of is outdated. As you well know, music is a lifetime of "continuing education." Many of your comments about authors in the abstract don't help because they remain...abstract. quote:
The descending tetra is indistinguishable from i VII VI V… and no matter how hard you argue about it, that fact doesn’t change and therefore is an un useful description of how and why flamenco works in general. Further, I feel the chords are born out of the voice leading concept rather than modern flamencos suddenly re-discovering it. Ie the G#BD of siguiriyas guitar riffs is more like a melodic arpegio rather than a block chord…it is voice leading pull back to tonic clearly. "We flamencos" don't generally write theory, so there is that. Manuel was calling flamenco a phrygian tonal system as far back as 87. Castro Buendia calls it flamenco phrygian tonality. i-VII-VI-V is definitely distinguishable from iv-III-II-I otherwise flamenco would not exist. In fact, that is the beauty of flamenco. They figured out how to have this third system of tonality based on II-I and iv-III-II-I. Way ahead of you on the theory of it. I note that iv-III-II-I is a musical and cultural inversion of i-VII-VI-V and that this HYPOTHESIS, like a scientific hypothesis, can be used to make predictions. For example, if it is an inversion of the Western system, one could expect modulations or tonicizations to closely related keys, by fifth up or down. Then you would need to identify what is new or distinct or unique in the system. II functions as the chord of "tension" and I as the tonic. I avoid when I can the concept of dominant because it conflates chord quality, function, and distance from tonic. I also recommend Peter Manuel's article on dual tonicity. Whether one recognizes a DT as iv-III-II-I or i-VII-VI-V is culturally mediated. That is why non-flamencos want to resolve to I at the end of a iv-III-II-I progression; for them it is i-VII-VI-V. Anyway, I hope this does not sound condescending...I really do recommend those books. There is a great amount of theory that is difficult to find with a Google search. If you have acces to a music journal, the book reviews often point one in the right direction. I also recommend the latest books on schema and the partita tradition in Italy. You will learn a lot. One thing that is being argued is the value of Roman Numeral Analysis. I am personally for it as a shorthand, however partial it can be. The partita tradition uses, or not, figures but not Roman Numerals. I know you do not like Schenker (he is on his way out, or, at least, viewed as much less important than previously) or Roman Numerals. Ihave found that a combination of Roman Numerals and/or Jazz nomenclature, works. Anway, looking forward to chat.
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