Tango Two Finger Rasgueados (Full Version)

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mark51 -> Tango Two Finger Rasgueados (Jul. 9 2020 21:34:35)

Why not use the index and middle fingers for the two finger tango rasgueado? I'm working on that now and most of the videos say don't use the middle finger - use the index and ring finger. Right now that feels very unnatural to me.



Mark2 -> RE: Tango Two Finger Rasgueados (Jul. 9 2020 21:52:55)

You can use whatever fingers you want-it's the sound that matters. But, different fingers produce different sounds so if you want the sound of players who are using i and a, use i and a. It might feel weird at first but it's a very natural way of doing that ras. You can also do i up and then a,m, and i down. An extra stroke but also a very common sound.

Ricardo demonstrated the importance, and utility of that particular move in a video about fandangos.

Variety is the ticket. Get comfortable with as many ways as possible of expressing the compas. A singer once told me the goal was not to do 1,000 different things but to do a few things a thousand different ways.



gerundino63 -> RE: Tango Two Finger Rasgueados (Jul. 9 2020 22:40:07)

The index and ring finger are most of the time more equal in length than the index and middle finger.



Ricardo -> RE: Tango Two Finger Rasgueados (Jul. 10 2020 17:01:39)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mark51

Why not use the index and middle fingers for the two finger tango rasgueado? I'm working on that now and most of the videos say don't use the middle finger - use the index and ring finger. Right now that feels very unnatural to me.


Because the sound you are trying to reproduce (unless you want a unique sound?), is trebles, mids, basses in sequence chuck-ah boom. The middle fingers’s position, especially loaded on bent thumb, is such that it will also snap into the bass note, rather than what the ring finger can do, also strumming free of the thumb load position, which is a nice positioned target of the middle strings. I believe I demo that at elite guitarist.



mark indigo -> RE: Tango Two Finger Rasgueados (Jul. 10 2020 17:03:16)

quote:

Why not use the index and middle fingers for the two finger tango rasgueado? I'm working on that now and most of the videos say don't use the middle finger - use the index and ring finger. Right now that feels very unnatural to me.


Habichuela does just that, uses m and i BUT he does the upstroke with m not i (i.e. m up, m down, i down)! He also uses that mechanism in other contexts to play 4 or 5 notes per beat. Miguel Angel Cortes (fellow Granaino) also does this, and it's very clear in his Encuentro video.

Oscar Herrero also teaches index and middle to play triplets in the Paso a Paso DVD's, but he is using the index to do the upstroke, and i was also shown this by a teacher back in the nineties (i.e. it's not unique to Herrero), but I never really got on with it. Just spotted someone else using i up, m down, i down to play Sevillanas here at 1:30:




mark indigo -> RE: Tango Two Finger Rasgueados (Jul. 10 2020 17:39:45)

quote:

most of the videos say don't use the middle finger


just curious - what videos?



I also agree with the other posters:

quote:

if you want the sound of players who are using i and a, use i and a


and:

quote:

The index and ring finger are most of the time more equal in length than the index and middle finger.



Ricardo -> RE: Tango Two Finger Rasgueados (Jul. 10 2020 19:09:11)

quote:

Habichuela does just that, uses m and i BUT he does the upstroke with m not i (i.e. m up, m down, i down)! He also uses that mechanism in other contexts to play 4 or 5 notes per beat. Miguel Angel Cortes (fellow Granaino) also does this, and it's very clear in his Encuentro video.

Oscar Herrero also teaches index and middle to play triplets in the Paso a Paso DVD's, but he is using the index to do the upstroke, and i was also shown this by a teacher back in the nineties (i.e. it's not unique to Herrero), but I never really got on with it. Just spotted someone else using i up, m down, i down to play Sevillanas here at 1:30:


Pretty sure he was asking about tango basic compas, not rolls or accents.

Although it’s good you pointed out Pepe because he has different techniques that actual make him have unique results, however subtle.



mark51 -> RE: Tango Two Finger Rasgueados (Jul. 10 2020 19:37:47)

Here's one as an example.




mark51 -> RE: Tango Two Finger Rasgueados (Jul. 10 2020 19:47:30)

Your video is one I've been watching :) Your explanation here makes sense. It's getting easier now that I'm on day #2 learning tango. I'm from the DC area, now living in Florida.



mark indigo -> RE: Tango Two Finger Rasgueados (Jul. 10 2020 23:10:37)

quote:

Pretty sure he was asking about tango basic compas, not rolls or accents.


yeah, the Herrero example veered off topic a bit, but the Pepe Habichuela one is relevant:

"Pepe perfected this movemente [m up, m down, i down], by derivation from a rumba andaluza strumming (very similar to old tangos he used to play as a child in Granada. In this technique that he had learned from his father Tio José, he replaced the thumb of the strong beat by a golpe and the first two index finders by the middle finger."

[In place of p i i i (all down on each of 4 beats) he did golpe, m up, m down, i down on the 4 beats.]

"From that time onwards the movement was ready and it was just sufficient to take out the first beat and it's golpe to have a continuous rasgueado after some practising to increase the speed." [from Alain Faucher's "Flamenco Esencias" book]

I'm pretty sure Pepe has used this (mmi) where we would use iai in basic tangos compas, and certain Miguel Angel Cortes has.

But as you say,
quote:

Pepe... has different techniques that actual make him have unique results, however subtle.


I happened to spot the Sevillanas example and although a different palo of course the mechanism (however you do it) in Sevillanas is the same as Tangos but without the down up index on the 4th beat.

I learned i up, a down, m down, i down, for basic tangos compas first (i think maybe from the Paco Serrano Encuentro), and from there it was easy to drop the m finger to get the typical i up, a down, i down, which is what i use.

I have tried the m up, m down, i down, version, but find it really clunky and awkward so don't use it.



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