A Suggested Palos Learning Cycle? (Full Version)

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Gecko -> A Suggested Palos Learning Cycle? (Feb. 22 2006 11:14:01)

I'm sure that there are going to be varying opinions on this, but I want to solicit your thoughts.

Would it be best to learn a variety of different, simplified forms (sort of build a repertoire of simplified forms), then work on them over time to build speed and compas. Or would it make more sense to stay with a single form until you can play it up to speed and in compas?

Right now I'm leaning towards building a repertoire of 4 or 5 different simplified forms and then work on them over time to build speed and get them in compas. Then attempt a more complex version of these forms. At this time I have pretty much learned a simple Solea (Primera Solea) and a Verdiales (Malaga, mi tierra).


Thanks!!



Ron.M -> RE: A Suggested Palos Learning Cycle? (Feb. 22 2006 12:05:08)

quote:

Would it be best to learn a variety of different, simplified forms


Gecko,
I'd say yes, otherwise you'll bore yourself to death.
Also if you learn say, simple Soleares + Soleares por Buleria + Alegrias, you'll start to connect the similarities.
Concentrate more on good rhythmic rasgeado and steady rhythm with some very simple and short falsetas inbetween.

That's my view anyway...

cheers

Ron



Gecko -> RE: A Suggested Palos Learning Cycle? (Feb. 22 2006 14:06:18)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M

quote:

Would it be best to learn a variety of different, simplified forms


Gecko,
I'd say yes, otherwise you'll bore yourself to death.

Concentrate more on good rhythmic rasgeado and steady rhythm with some very simple and short falsetas inbetween.


That's what I was thinking, that it would be awful tedious.

A Tango is next on my "to be learned" list, followed by an Alegria, but I wanted to see if it was a good idea to move on at this point.

Yes, concentrating on a good even, distinctive, rasqueo (3 & 4 finger), my apoyando and steady rhythms is exactly what I'm doing and fortunately there are short falsetas built into the sheet music I have, at least I think that's what they are.



Jon Boyes -> RE: A Suggested Palos Learning Cycle? (Feb. 22 2006 14:38:57)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gecko
Right now I'm leaning towards building a repertoire of 4 or 5 different simplified forms and then work on them over time to build speed and get them in compas. Then attempt a more complex version of these forms.


It sounds like you are learning solos. The great thing about the approach Ron is suggesting is that once you have this 'backbone' of a few palos down, you can add complexity to what you have already learned eg. add in a longer falseta, more twiddly remate, whatever. No need to view it as 'right now I've learned this solo piece, I'll learn a more complex one in the same style'.

I know Juan Martin's Play solo DVD/book takes this graded-solo approach, but I would argue that its more beneficial to build on what you have by adding in things as you learn them. Its a good test to see if you truly understand the compas too. Its too easy for begginners to learn solos note for note and miss the whole point ie not appreciate what they just learned and not be able to apply it.



Ricardo -> RE: A Suggested Palos Learning Cycle? (Feb. 22 2006 18:32:02)

Ok, you say A solea, A tangos, AN alegrias....that is the wrong way. You can learn many forms at once, but first learn a SINGLE strumming pattern, and be able to do it IN COMPAS at tempo, and a SINGLE FALSETA in compas and at tempo. Graduate by falsetas and rhythmic strumming patterns, NOT by what you percieve to be "complete forms".

Ricardo



Trev -> RE: A Suggested Palos Learning Cycle? (Feb. 24 2006 6:33:24)

Ricardo,

"Graduate by falsetas and rhythmic strumming patterns, NOT by what you percieve to be "complete forms".


You are so right. It has taken me 2 years to figure this out. Tom actually said something similar. He said you should learn techniques before palos. This seems a bit extreme but I think he may be right.

Now if I could only stay in compas playing bulerias por solea for longer than 4 cycles playing solo. Do any of you feel that your compas is suspect without the aid of a loop or palmas? I do.

As far as palos I think you should learn first. Tangos definitely because it's in 4/4. It has that back beat accent on 2 and 4 similar to American music that, Americans anyway, can relate to. Second to that I would say rumba gitana if only for juergas. For me honestly it was bulerias that sold me on flamenco and has been my passion ever since. Uhhh, but I still suck and get out of compas more than occasionally, although playing with others seems to be the best medicine for this problem.

And on the subject of palos..........

I can FEEL the modern tanguillo, but to count it like one, TWO three four FIVE six, just seems really unnatural. But I love it!! Especially "Mia Pa Los Restos" from Potito. It makes the hairs stand up and be counted if you know what I mean. Maybe I should start another dicussion on this subject, just thinking out loud.

Trevor



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