FredGuitarraOle -> Juan Talega's Soleares comments (Jun. 10 2019 21:14:26)
Listen at 2:42 on the interview above. Juan Talega mentions that all the cantes from La Serneta were in fact from La Andonda. The cantes attributed to these cantaoras are fairly different from each other, so what does he mean by that?
Also, at 6:36 he first shows as an example how Juaniquí 2 derives from Serneta 5 and then says that all the cantes from Juaniquí are from Serneta. There are, in fact, many similarities between those two particular cantes and I understand what he meant in this specific situation, however I don't see the connection between their other cantes and in the previous example.
I'm aware that in the study "Antonio Mairena en el Mundo de la Siguiriya y la Soleá" the attribution of cantes to cantaores does not necessarily mean that they were created by them and that those attributions were just suposed to give the cantes different names for their identification. I also know that this attributions were mostly made based on various known accounts given by cantaores. So if all Serneta's cantes were in fact from La Andonda, as Juan Talega suggested, then why were they attributed to Serneta?
By the way, for those having trouble understanding, the interview is transcribed in Norman's site at the very bottom of this page: http://canteytoque.es/talegasolearec.htm
Listen at 2:42 on the interview above. Juan Talega mentions that all the cantes from La Serneta were in fact from La Andonda. The cantes attributed to these cantaoras are fairly different from each other, so what does he mean by that?
Also, at 6:36 he first shows as an example how Juaniquí 2 derives from Serneta 5 and then says that all the cantes from Juaniquí are from Serneta. There are, in fact, many similarities between those two particular cantes and I understand what he meant in this specific situation, however I don't see the connection between their other cantes and in the previous example.
I'm aware that in the study "Antonio Mairena en el Mundo de la Siguiriya y la Soleá" the attribution of cantes to cantaores does not necessarily mean that they were created by them and that those attributions were just suposed to give the cantes different names for their identification. I also know that this attributions were mostly made based on various known accounts given by cantaores. So if all Serneta's cantes were in fact from La Andonda, as Juan Talega suggested, then why were they attributed to Serneta?
I read the transcript, at first you are thinking he is senile old man but what he says before that, his uncle and himself learned “everything” from Serneta who was in uncles house a lot. And she herself learned “everything” from Andonda. So he is not implying that the end results are identical. For sure solea Alcala (juan and Joaquin and others) are different than Serneta.... but depending on interpretation you can catch glimpses that they have common sources. For example Joaquin 1 I once described as the drunk guy’s version of Serneta 1. Juan goes on to describe how the “ay” of Serneta (an important distinguishing detail) was added by pastora Pavon.
In general he is pointing out how the classifications don’t really tell a story of creation, these things evolved and changed over time. I will say that I was confused about why two Serneta Cantes were in the Triana group but knowing the Andonda /fillo connections it makes perfect sense. And honestly I can see the Alcala connections to Andonda as well, and it’s probably thanks to Serneta again, we just don’t get to see the evolutionary stepping stones.
