Tuning machines (Full Version)

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flyeogh -> Tuning machines (Feb. 26 2019 15:59:32)

Just looking at replacing my Sloane tuners at over $300 (as mentioned in another thread).

I notice on for example www.guitarfromspain.com they offer original Alhambra
and original Admira tuners. The most expensive seem to be Alhambra N3s at $55.
Some cost little more than $10.

Seems a massive price difference. I've owned a Alhambra 10f and a cheap Admira
for over 13 years (now both played by my niece in Madrid) and the tuners on both
are fine. And the measurements for the four screw holes seem to have identical
spacing - presumably an industry standard ?

Any thoughts as if I save $200 that's 10 hours of lessons, a new soft bag, and plenty of strings on top

And I can then see if the Sloanes can be repaired without having my Anders out of commission. [:D]



Echi -> RE: Tuning machines (Feb. 26 2019 16:37:34)

I have tried and replaced many tuning machines in life.
Everybody has their own preferences and the final price also depends if you are based in Europe or USA.
The screw holes are never standard while 35 mm is the today standard distance between the barrels.
If you have an old guitar better to check before placing an order.
If you look at mere proficiency, Dj tuners are fine and cost just few bucks, depending on the model. They have aluminium plate and Teflon spacers. I find them ugly but this is just me.
At this price range Rubner has a good choice. They work ok.
Next step is Gotoh standard ( in Europe they go around 70 euros). A kind of Japanese Fusteros: they work ok.
Next suggested step is Schaller premium (starting at around 130 euro in Europe) and Gotoh premium (starting at 160 euro or so): they work much better.
160 euro is also the starting price of Perona, strongly inspired to Alessi but made in Asia and imported by Barber in Europe.
Beyond that price I’d go for Alessi ( basic F model starting from 210 euro in Europe). Take note that the cheap Alessi are good but not as good as the expensive ones. Alessi is a one man run shop and obviously the man pours much care in the top of the line products.
200 euro is more or less the actual price of Fusteros: always a classic and definitely nice but machanically quite poor.
Above this step everything is (or should be) top level.
Premium Alessi and Scheller are my options for this segment but imho you should have a very nice guitar (or very difficult tastesj and a forgiving girlfriend to justify the expense.
Good luck.



flyeogh -> RE: Tuning machines (Feb. 26 2019 18:18:56)

Echi thank you so much for that. Not only saved me hours researching but also given great clarity.

I think I will buy a N2 set of Alhambras. Then I'll check if they will do the job on the Anders.
If not I'll replace those on the Alhambra - which will please my niece. After 20 years the originals work but look a little sad.

I'll get a luthier to do it and see what he suggests. Down here in Cadiz a luthier's time.
sadly doesn't cost much.



mrstwinkle -> RE: Tuning machines (Feb. 26 2019 19:03:12)

Curious - do local luthiers down there also make worthwhile guitars at -very competitive- prices? As in rather than just doing repairs? Recommendations?



Echi -> RE: Tuning machines (Feb. 26 2019 19:56:58)

The main suppliers in Spain of stuff for guitarmakers (including tuning machines) are Maderas Barber (in Valencia) and Madinter (In Madrid). Both have the website and sell also to private customers. Just add the VAT. tAx to the price.
It’s worth checking.



flyeogh -> RE: Tuning machines (Feb. 26 2019 20:02:37)

For sure there is very high unemployment and many grabbing what they can in season. And while some establishments pay the minimum wage they expect the employees to do some hours for free. Not many Spanish families have full employment or anywhere near it, including mine.

There are people with money of course. And you will hear talk of the black economy but in truth while there is a large black economy not many in it earn enough to pay tax anyway.

Part of the reason for the black economy is the zero VAT threshold. Just part of the madness that is Spain.

A good example around Cadiz of the economy is the number of bars you see open and close inside 6 months. I gather that the unemployed are so desperate that they hire a bar, have it done up (using all the cash they can muster), and then go bust. You see dozens of them. Just last year one bar in el Puerto tried to attract trade by selling a small beer at 40cents. It went bust of course.

So, one can see that Spaniards looking to splash out 5000 Euros on handmade guitars are few and far between.

Sorry wittering. I would expect you could bargain a good deal if you have the time. I estimate my cost of living here, even allowing for the fact I pay tax, is at least 25% less than in the UK. (And a serious example: my MIL is in a residence costing 1600 Euros a month. My business colleague in the UK was asked to pay 1100 GBP per week in SE England). So there must be room to negotiate.

But there are luthiers with very established names (eg Bernal, Sevilla) and some I’d never heard of (Ivan Delgado, Cadiz – Rafael Romero, San Fernando – David Cosano, Jerez de la frontera). But I don’t think they are overloaded with orders even if they are known overseas. To be honest I don’t ever visit any as I had all my guitars before I moved here, and Anders was here of course (not inferring that Anders is not a luthier [&:]).

But,I think Joselito??? said that he had found a new luthier in Rota. For me that is two nice boat rides so I thought as I have this tuner m/c issue I’d hop over and have a look.

Sorry that turned into a diatribe. I’ll get my coat.



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