Paso Doble

Paso Doble (Full Version)

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Schieper -> Paso Doble (Feb. 14 2019 10:36:22)
Hi all, when I was young, handsome and 30kg lighter I used to dance a lot and Paso Doble was one of my favourite dances. How does that relate to Flamenco?

Ricardo -> RE: Paso Doble (Feb. 14 2019 15:09:01)
It’s spanish.

henrym3483 -> RE: Paso Doble (Feb. 14 2019 16:35:31)
lots of traditional dance and song in spain, which is not of flamenco origin, Jota comes to mind.

Mark2 -> RE: Paso Doble (Feb. 14 2019 21:07:03)
Some paso dobles are played at bullfights. Bullfighting-flamenco connection is well established. My first flamenco teacher taught me a few arrangements of paso dobles that he considered bullfight tunes. Espana Cani was one of them. They were fun and people really seemed to like them. Not exactly puro.

Richard Jernigan -> RE: Paso Doble (Feb. 15 2019 7:45:46)
In interviews several flamencos of the mid-20th century were asked which of the images in the Holy Week processions in Seville they might be particularly attached to. They followed the generally perceived preferences of gitanos for La Virgen de la Macarena and "El Dios del Gran Poder." La Macarena has her own paso doble, played in slow time by the band that accompanies her, to provide a marching cadence for the 48 costaleros who carry her paso on their shoulders. Since her paso doble was transformed into a florid trumpet solo by the great Mexican Rafael Mendez, it became very popular in that country. La Macarena also has her own drum and bugle music played by the corps which marches with her. Before the procession turns into the Calle Sierpes, nearing the Catedral, you hear the band and the drums and bugles approaching. La Macarena pauses in the the Calle Sierpes for a saeta to be sung to her. The drum and bugle music is often heard on recordings of saetas. (The saetas themselves are unaccompanied.) Here is one of the most popular paso dobles taurinos, "El Gato Montés," well played by the band from a town just south of Valencia: Though "paso doble" might be translated as "two-step," not all paso dobles are in 2/4 or 4/4 time. "El Relicario" is in 3/4. RNJ

BarkellWH -> RE: Paso Doble (Feb. 15 2019 22:18:07)
quote: La Macarena also has her own drum and bugle music played by the corps which marches with her. Before the procession turns into the Calle Sierpes, nearing the Catedral, you hear the band and the drums and bugles approaching. La Macarena pauses in the the Calle Sierpes for a saeta to be sung to her. The drum and bugle music is often heard on recordings of saetas. Twice in the 1960s and once in 1982, I attended concerts by Carlos Montoya. Carlos always played his version of Saeta, with the drum and bugle music performed on the guitar alone. He accomplished the effect of the drum by crossing the fifth string over the sixth, holding them in that position with the left hand, and with his right hand performing a modified rasgueo that had the tempo and sound of a snare drum. The bugle effect was accomplished on the trebles. It really sounded nice and was always a crowd-pleaser. Bill

Richard Jernigan -> RE: Paso Doble (Feb. 15 2019 23:53:45)
...and here is España Cañi (Gypsy Spain), as mentioned by Mark2. The trumpet fanfare at 1:30 is that which traditionally announces the beginning of the third tercio of the corrida, where the matador faces the bull with sword and small cape (muleta). RNJ

kitarist -> RE: Paso Doble (Feb. 16 2019 0:24:49)
In Tom and Jerry Episode 108 - Mucho Mouse (1957), "A Spanish cat is more interested in playing flamenco guitar than trying to catch the mouse El Magnifico (Jerry)..." From 2:26-2:40 you can hear a paso doble - anyone know what the name of it is? P.S. you have to go to youtube to watch it.

RobJe -> RE: Paso Doble (Feb. 16 2019 8:25:42)
Loosely based on España Cañí?

flyeogh -> RE: Paso Doble (Feb. 16 2019 9:23:01)
Yup really enjoyed that. Nothing beats T&M. Thanks. [:)]

kitarist -> RE: Paso Doble (Feb. 16 2019 16:07:54)
quote: ORIGINAL: RobJe Loosely based on España Cañí? I was hoping it might be an actual separate composition that I can find by its name once I know it. Someone on the delcamp forum is irritating me by refusing to believe that this excerpt can possibly be a paso doble [8\|] [:D]

Richard Jernigan -> RE: Paso Doble (Feb. 16 2019 21:45:45)
RobJe could be on the right track. Pascual Marquina, the composer of España Cañi, lived until 1948. Maybe Hollywood touched the piece up a bit, hoping to avoid copyright problems. But I am by no means a paso doble expert. I just remember a few from corridas in Mexico and Spain. The fanfare at the end of the Tom & Jerry clip is also altered from the traditional one of the corrida, but i would think the corrida version would be public domain, since I assume it goes back a long time. It goes back at least to when I was six years old, 75 years ago.😎 RNJ

kitarist -> RE: Paso Doble (Feb. 17 2019 1:49:43)
quote: España Cañi quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Jernigan RobJe could be on the right track. Pascual Marquina, the composer of España Cañi, lived until 1948. Maybe Hollywood touched the piece up a bit, hoping to avoid copyright problems. But I am by no means a paso doble expert. I just remember a few from corridas in Mexico and Spain. [:)] Okay, but there is not doubt that excerpt IS a pasodoble - es verdad, amigo? [:D] Wow, I think I just found ALL OF THEM [:D] This is a playlist of more than 1700 of "the best brass band pasodobles ordered by popularity" (!!!) https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5xAy4Ufl2T7W9KJHMIZ1zsyeKxFWF1WI

RobJe -> RE: Paso Doble (Feb. 17 2019 13:03:20)
We should have looked at IMDB instead of guessing! https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1780411/ Rob

edguerin -> RE: Paso Doble (Feb. 18 2019 17:12:34)
quote: Jota comes to mind. Although not of flamenco origin the Jota is one of the foundations of flamenco, and is related to the cantiñas see here

Schieper -> RE: Paso Doble (Feb. 18 2019 18:40:38)
thanks all. That is some inspiring feedback.. What would be other bullfighting tunes? Appart from paso doble?

Ricardo -> RE: Paso Doble (Feb. 19 2019 14:46:11)
quote: ORIGINAL: edguerin quote: Jota comes to mind. Although not of flamenco origin the Jota is one of the foundations of flamenco, and is related to the cantiñas see here Always heard or read this. I played some jota for dancer students with a bandurria player in my early training period. After understanding more completely the cantiñas family of melodies I still after years can not figure out How in the hell jota is related AT ALL!!! I mean other than the superficial fact of a major key melody and see saw V-I harmony I still don’t get it. Somebody please show me a jota that has melodic parts of the Alegrias, Romeras, Cantiñas, anything... please!

edguerin -> RE: Paso Doble (Feb. 20 2019 8:06:04)
Well, Faustino Nuñez says: quote: La jota tiene un rítmica muy particular que se trasvasaron al flamenco en forma de patrones que se usan una y otra vez. Sin embargo fue en lo melódico y armónico (en los acordes de la guitarra) donde ha dejado una huella más profunda, en las cantiñas nominadas alegrías. En la melodía flamenca la jota dejó su marca en el cante por alegrías, que adaptó muchas melodías joteras, mientras se fundían con el aire de los jaleos gaditanos. Las alegrías no son otra cosa que jotas adaptadas al compás de la soleá al golpe, aflamencando la melodía cantable y con aire bailable. He underlines this with: this audio clip Which sounds convincing enough to me (but of course I'm no expert)

Ricardo -> RE: Paso Doble (Feb. 20 2019 15:56:02)
quote: ORIGINAL: edguerin Well, Faustino Nuñez says: quote: La jota tiene un rítmica muy particular que se trasvasaron al flamenco en forma de patrones que se usan una y otra vez. Sin embargo fue en lo melódico y armónico (en los acordes de la guitarra) donde ha dejado una huella más profunda, en las cantiñas nominadas alegrías. En la melodía flamenca la jota dejó su marca en el cante por alegrías, que adaptó muchas melodías joteras, mientras se fundían con el aire de los jaleos gaditanos. Las alegrías no son otra cosa que jotas adaptadas al compás de la soleá al golpe, aflamencando la melodía cantable y con aire bailable. He underlines this with: this audio clip Which sounds convincing enough to me (but of course I'm no expert) At best it starts like buleria de Cadiz, then diverges a lot. “Dicen que van a poner...” matches the opening melody, then it’s really different. But non of the 3 Alegrias melodies nor cantiñas “tiri tiri tran tran”, “cuando andando...” etc, romeras “zarzamora”, mirabras, pinini, Alegrias de Cordoba “preguntale platero”, caracoles.... non of that stuff is even close IMO.

joselito_fletan -> RE: Paso Doble (Feb. 20 2019 21:08:11)
It's carnaval in Cadiz, and "El Selu" has left this little paso doble for all the baldies out there[8D]

Schieper -> RE: Paso Doble (Feb. 21 2019 10:30:49)
awesome... great idea to use a kazoo as some sort of trumpet impersonator :-)

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