tf10music -> RE: Rosalía “El Mal Querer” (Dec. 14 2018 20:45:06)
|
quote:
What is "too silly" is the channeling of your inner Antonio Gramsci and your mis-application of his notion of Hegemony. The "concept" of "cultural appropriation" as being relative to power is your notion, presumably to be used (as is fashionable today) to leverage against those you accuse of "marginalizing" others. But you cannot have it both ways. If you are going to consider "cultural appropriation" a valid concept (which I do not), you must recognize that it exists whether it is practiced by a so-called "marginalized" group or the group in power. To take, or borrow, cultural activities such as music, art, dance, science, etc. from one group to another has been occurring since mankind discovered groups existed other than one's own. The power relationship is irrelevant. And we have all benefited from the exchange. You may be surprised to learn that several Foro members are well-aware of the history of Al-Andalus and subsequent events after the Reconquista. We are cognizant of historical, political, and cultural developments, as well as the development of flamenco and the influence the Moors and Sephardic Jews have had in that development. No one is denying that the Andalusian gitanos have claimed it as their own (although that violates your statement above about saying "this is ours"). My point was that the gitanos owe a debt to other elements (Moors, Sephardic Jews) in the development of flamenco. And it renders them a bit hypocritical to accuse the woman who is the subject of this thread of "cultural appropriation. Interesting that you default to Gramsci. For what it's worth, I think that Italian tradition of marxism is mostly just theology (I mean, have you SEEN Negri/Hardt and Virno's very nearly messianic confidence in the multitude?) I think the idea of cultural hegemony is theological because it assumes that capitalism is some kind of mystical ur-structure that is no longer rooted in material relations. Gramsci's reception in Andalucía (and particularly in Granada) is an interesting one, though. There are some great poets who were very influenced by his and Althusser's work in the 80s. I mostly used the term "power" because I didn't think that this forum was the ideal space to have a philosophical discussion...but I'll bite. In order to adequately comprehend the manner in which a given group is positioned relative to its society, one must consider the dialectical relation between large-scale economic and ideological history and small-scale social history. The interaction between these two forms of anteriority is what causes imbalances in resource accumulation, social capital, or "power." Of course cultural appropriation exists no matter what its directionality (you are correct about that), but it only becomes a potential problem when a privileged group is taking from a marginalized group. I don't have a problem with taking or borrowing, actually. On top of flamenco, I play a lot of blues. But when one is operating from the top end of an imbalance, one must find a way to make sure that the coding one is taking (whether musical, visual, or linguistic) is in some way revivifying and promoting the original culture in a new context. That's a pretty low bar to clear. I think the point that I was trying to make about gitanos and flamenco might have gotten lost in translation. I wasn't questioning your knowledge so much as observing that a) the gitanos were not in a position of power when they borrowed elements of música andalusí and b) it's kind of weird to accuse the gitanos of appropriating from peoples who weren't even present during flamenco's nascence and development. There are no repercussions for appropriation when the peoples from whom one is borrowing are so absent that there is no conceivable possibility of them benefiting from having their musical traditions all to themselves. I should add that despite all of that, there are countless nods to both Jews and Muslims in the letras, as I'm sure you're aware. I feel like much of the flamenco ethos in Granada has to do with this perceived connection to Muslim and Sephardic Jewish music. For what it's worth, I don't think it's right to accuse Rosalía of cultural appropriation, since it's apparent that she's very interested in working through the potential problems of her engagement with flamenco. It seems like she's actively questioning what it means to be "Spanish," and her mode of inquiry is to place different regional/cultural discourses that have been attributed to "Spain" together in a musical context, such that they generate a friction (and even a dissonance, at times). Regarding your reply to El Burdo: Nobody is denying that most (if not all) groups have been perpetrators of violence at some point. What people are trying to tell you is that violence is situational, can be either horizontally or vertically oriented. If you think that there isn't a difference between tribal conflicts between the Pueblo and the Navajo and the vertical violence of colonialism, I don't know what to tell you (hard to argue about the Aztec Empire, though, admittedly). In any case, appropriation is situational insofar as violence is situational. I'm Jewish, which means that at various points my people have suffered violence and persecution, and I'm well aware of the fact that contemporary Christians have at times unscrupulously appropriated my culture (remember that fake Christian 'rabbi' who delivered a prayer at Mike Pence's rally after the Pittsburgh shootings?). At the same time, though, if I decide to take from, say, Black musical traditions in a way that doesn't acknowledge my debt, erases cultural difference and doesn't attempt to bolster or honor the culture with which I'm engaging, then I am similarly guilty of appropriation (though my appropriation will likely be less vindictive than that of the 'messianic rabbi,' because seriously, that's low). It's a question of sensitivity and ethics, is what I'm saying. Cultural exchange is great, so long as it's generous and respectful, and doesn't essentialize, caricature or commodify the 'other.' Re: Mark2: That's not what I'm saying at all. Play all the falsetas you like! Maybe if you start selling records, it might become a bit of an issue, but even then, there are innumerable ways to give back to a community that aren't monetary. I'm also well aware that there have been plenty of great flamenco artists who aren't gitanos (hell, if it weren't for Silverio Franconetti, we'd have a lot less variety preserved in flamenco). It always strikes me, though, that so many people think in absolute terms and not in terms of tendency. Flamenco does not (and should not) belong absolutely to the gitanos, but it certainly tends in that direction.
|
|
|
|