Top finished (Full Version)

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JasonM -> Top finished (Nov. 14 2018 22:03:34)

Can’t seem to upload pictures so:
https://instagram.com/p/BqLaenQlf94/

Critics welcome.

Only regrets are that my finger plane scratched the top, and I took more off the transverse bars than I wanted. I was trying to make them more triangular then U shaped but I went too far. Think it will be ok though.

Hope it sounds like a good Conde!!



constructordeguitarras -> RE: Top finished (Nov. 16 2018 2:22:33)

Nice neat looking work. I never saw anything like the pieces in between the fan braces near the tail end. Do they have a specific purpose?



JasonM -> RE: Top finished (Nov. 16 2018 13:28:01)

Thanks Ethan. Finally getting this guitar together after months spent making molds and dishes!

Those strips between the struts are supposed to keep the thin top from wrinkling according to Tom B. I debated over using them on my top but I decided to just go with the plan. They are sanded down to almost nothing.



Andy Culpepper -> RE: Top finished (Nov. 17 2018 11:23:38)

quote:

Nice neat looking work. I never saw anything like the pieces in between the fan braces near the tail end. Do they have a specific purpose?


I've always been confused by those. In my experience it's just not a location where I worry about wrinkling of the top; normally right behind the bridge is where I would notice that on a thin top. I've used a very light "bridge patch" directly behind the bridge a few times for that reason, especially on cedar tops with parallel fan braces, but not way down close to the tail.

In any case, looks like excellent work, Jason!



JasonM -> RE: Top finished (Nov. 17 2018 18:46:08)

Thanks maestro! That’s interesting about the location. Seems like these strips might have been specific to only that guitar top. I’ve never seen them used on any of his other guitars.



Tom Blackshear -> RE: Top finished (Nov. 20 2018 21:30:11)

The premise here is that the top is fairly thin and does have a tendency to wrinkle at the bottom. With a thicker top, it's not necessarily the case.

The same thing is prevalent with the Miguel Rodriguez pattern, and this is why I used the thin inserts for that design, to eliminate the problem. They are placed in an area a little differently from the Reyes pattern.



Echi -> RE: Top finished (Nov. 21 2018 11:38:18)

My 2 cents: These segmented little bars (exceptional also for Reyes) help to stiffen a top exceptionally flexible transversally.
It’s interesting to take into consideration the assembly method of Reyes: he first glues together the transverse bars and the underbridge patch and then he shapes them. At the end of all, he starts gluing the fan bracings.
He also varies the length of the underbridge patch case by case, according to the transversal/lateral stiffness of the top plate.
In my opinion this means that Reyes takes into great consideration this aspect.
In the case of the 2003 guitar, Reyes used the longest underbridge patch, meaning the top was probably wobbly. Maybe in this case he just wanted to add a little more lateral stiffness allso behind the bridge.



Tom Blackshear -> RE: Top finished (Nov. 21 2018 16:02:20)

quote:

In my opinion this means that Reyes takes into great consideration this aspect.
In the case of the 2003 guitar, Reyes used the longest under-bridge patch, meaning the top was probably wobbly. Maybe in this case he just wanted to add a little more lateral stiffness also behind the bridge.


You are certainly entitled to your opinion. The original top was medium stiff but it was thin, so I have to go with the idea that the inserts were placed to prevent wrinkling toward the bottom.

Another thing they accomplish is to change the top's key a little on the downside. So, not only does it reinforce the top to be stiffer but it lowers the key just a little. I found that I had to thin around the center of the top to get a vowel tone, but giving an edge to the tone by using solid 2 part lining for the top to the sides.



RobF -> RE: Top finished (Nov. 21 2018 16:25:46)

Nice clean work Jason.

You mentioned the top got a few scratches while finger planing the braces. If these are imprints from the plane sides (as opposed to actual scratches where wood fibres are torn) you can quite likely swell them out by dampening the wood around the indent with water. They will generally disappear after doing that.

I have rounded the edges of my finger planes and other small planes to help avoid the occurrence. If they are actual scratches you can take solace in the fact that once the guitar is boxed the no one will see them anyways.

At any rate, it looks like you’re making good progress!



JasonM -> RE: Top finished (Nov. 22 2018 14:29:41)

Thanks Rob great tips! Yup, I got a lot of indentations made from the edge of the plane.

Regarding Reyes.. again, I wonder if the top thickness of ~2.0 mm of also exceptional for Reyes, and a thicker top was his norm.



Echi -> RE: Top finished (Nov. 22 2018 14:40:46)

Again, just my 2 cents.
I think you have a margin of 0.2 mm depending on the top stiffness. The choice of the wood should come before the mere numbers here.
I inspected a Reyes and in that case the average thickness was 1.9 mm.
The Reyes mentioned in the Urlich book is also 1.9 mm thick.
The 3rd reliable source is of course the 2003 plan.
To make a general statement I should have inspected more guitars but up to now I Guess Reyes didn’t go for tops thicker than this.



JasonM -> RE: Top finished (Nov. 22 2018 15:44:36)

Thanks for the info Echi. I remember the ‘83 that Tom Nunez inspected was thicker ~2.3 - 2.4? That’s in Conde terrain



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