Flamenco puro as world music (Full Version)

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Morante -> Flamenco puro as world music (May 12 2018 15:22:35)





Morante -> RE: Flamenco puro as world music (May 12 2018 15:50:04)





Leñador -> RE: Flamenco puro as world music (May 12 2018 18:32:44)

That was brutal....my ears tried to escape my face.




terry70 -> RE: Flamenco puro as world music (May 12 2018 19:40:56)

That's all interesting. It reminds me of what the British did with African American music in the 1960's. Groups like The Rolling Stones, decent enough musicians in their own right, approximating the sounds and grooves they liked. Was it really blues? Probably not. But artists borrow from things they find around them. And in this shrinking world we are flooded with arts from every corner of the globe. What are you gonna do? I guess complain and make fun of. But every once in a while someone morphs this stuff into clever ideas that people like. Sometimes not.




Leñador -> RE: Flamenco puro as world music (May 12 2018 20:35:27)

I feel like this is more like African Americans in the 1960’s doing terrible renditions of their own music [:D]

I’m surprised Falete is as popular as he/she is, Spain, specifically Andalusia doesn’t come off as the most tolerant place in Europe, but I suppose maybe I’m wrong.




Morante -> RE: Flamenco puro as world music (May 12 2018 22:18:39)

You wouldn´t believe how many times I have heard "Procuro olvidarte" por bulerías[:@]




Richard Jernigan -> RE: Flamenco puro as world music (May 13 2018 0:08:20)

quote:

ORIGINAL: terry70

That's all interesting. It reminds me of what the British did with African American music in the 1960's. Groups like The Rolling Stones, decent enough musicians in their own right, approximating the sounds and grooves they liked. Was it really blues? Probably not. But artists borrow from things they find around them. And in this shrinking world we are flooded with arts from every corner of the globe. What are you gonna do? I guess complain and make fun of. But every once in a while someone morphs this stuff into clever ideas that people like. Sometimes not.


There's a hilarious sequence on "The London Howlin' Wolf Sessions."

Wolf is trying to teach the rock stars the guitar accompaniment to "Little Red Rooster." Wolf is on acoustic slide guitar, Clapton, Mike Butterfield et al are on their usual electrics. Wolf's lick has its own little swing. He keeps trying to explain, "You gotta stop at the top..."

After a while another track starts up. At first you think it's a different song, then it sinks in that it's the rock stars' best shot at Wolf's lick. The swing is completely ironed out, Ringo Starr bashing away, it's harmonized differently, delivered through what sounds like an eight foot high stack of Marshalls, smoothly but at ear shattering volume.

Wolf mans up and sings the song. I hope he made a lot of money.

RNJ




Morante -> RE: Flamenco puro as world music (May 13 2018 9:38:07)





Goldwinghai -> RE: Flamenco puro as world music (May 13 2018 13:41:04)

I really like her voice and expression. Upon further search on YouTube, I listened to this video and was blown away. Is this flamenco rumba? Whatever, I really like it.




Piwin -> RE: Flamenco puro as world music (May 13 2018 14:05:20)

quote:

Is this flamenco rumba?


The answer is in the title. Milonga [;)]
The Argentine music nerds will have to confim but I think the original song is by Atahualpa Yupanqui.




Leñador -> RE: Flamenco puro as world music (May 13 2018 15:25:34)

The version I have is Atahualpa Yupanqui but I don’t know if he’s the first...
A lot of these milongas were sort of floating around already by the time people like Yupanqui, Falu, Larralde etc started recording them.




Morante -> RE: Flamenco puro as world music (May 13 2018 15:53:19)

Hay gente que sabe y gente que no sabe.





Richard Jernigan -> RE: Flamenco puro as world music (May 13 2018 19:55:01)



RNJ




kitarist -> RE: Flamenco puro as world music (May 13 2018 20:31:51)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Piwin

quote:

Is this flamenco rumba?


The answer is in the title. Milonga [;)]
The Argentine music nerds will have to confim


[:D] It is right in the words she sings (4th line) - "Milonga Campera" - i.e. rural milonga, i.e. 3-3-2, i.e. what Piazzolla's milongas are like.

Original:




BarkellWH -> RE: Flamenco puro as world music (May 14 2018 13:35:32)

"Flamenco puro as World Music" is a contradiction in terms. Already in this thread we witness the breakdown in categories with the question of whether an Argentine milonga was in fact "flamenco rumba." The barbarians are at the gates and I fear there is no holding them back.

Bill




Morante -> RE: Flamenco puro as world music (May 14 2018 15:09:13)

quote:

The barbarians are at the gates and I fear there is no holding them back


¡Ole! I was hoping for a little wakeup[:D]




Leñador -> RE: Flamenco puro as world music (May 14 2018 19:48:42)

Because no one sold out flamenco until recently. [:D]


Flamenco has been an endangered species since it's birth.




Piwin -> RE: Flamenco puro as world music (May 14 2018 21:14:44)

quote:

Already in this thread we witness the breakdown in categories with the question of whether an Argentine milonga was in fact "flamenco rumba."


All I witnessed was somebody with an interest in flamenco asking a question about a form he didn't recognize.




Leñador -> RE: Flamenco puro as world music (May 14 2018 21:33:30)

Some more "flamenco" puro from the good ol' days. [:D]





rombsix -> RE: Flamenco puro as world music (May 14 2018 21:35:48)

Even the dog in Taka Taka was bored and kept yawning.




BarkellWH -> RE: Flamenco puro as world music (May 14 2018 22:40:51)

quote:

Some more "flamenco" puro from the good ol' days.


There have always been mountebanks and charlatans in various genres of music, and that goes for flamenco as well. As for Carlos Montoya, he could play flamenco well when he wanted to. Unfortunately, he deliberately decided to forego compas and depend on showmanship during the latter half of his long career.

Nevertheless, none of this detracts from the fact that throughout flamenco's history there have always been flamenco tocaores and cantaores who were the genuine item. They are the ones who will likely be absorbed in some capacity into the "World Music" miasma, and we will be the poorer for it.

Bill




Leñador -> RE: Flamenco puro as world music (May 15 2018 2:06:52)

quote:

As for Carlos Montoya, he could play flamenco well when he wanted to.

Yeah I've heard him play actual flamenco, that's what makes it worse, he knows better.

I don't know Morante's opinion on it but I think as long as there's young people like this flamenco will be alive. It's been changing ever since it began but it stays alive. I'm curious what someone like Manuel Torre would think about Manuel Moneo, I bet similar to what Moneo thinks about this kid. Maybe favorably, maybe not.




estebanana -> RE: Flamenco puro as world music (May 15 2018 11:41:06)

Thank goodness for ever vigilant Bill warning us off mountbanjs, shifty saltembaques, cads, snivkers, sneeches and flamenco grifters.

Bill out there rolling up sleeves and facing down bad world music with threats of fisticuffs!

Ole'!

Now I have a confession, I really really hates the cajon.




Ricardo -> RE: Flamenco puro as world music (May 15 2018 15:02:12)





Morante -> RE: Flamenco puro as world music (May 15 2018 15:41:39)

Ricardo,

This is flamenco puro in every sense. The LP was one of the first I managed to buy; this cante is described as Debla. (I can still sing the opening phrase!)

Caracol with Lola was mostly pathetic from a flamenco point of view, but a great singer when he wanted. Melchor es muy Melchor, el rey. Arturo one of the very few pianistas who could play flamenco (the current crack is Dorantes pero tiene el gusto por el culo): Sergio Monroy de Cádiz is much better.

Muchas gracias.




BarkellWH -> RE: Flamenco puro as world music (May 15 2018 15:44:23)

quote:

Thank goodness for ever vigilant Bill warning us off mountbanjs, shifty saltembaques, cads, snivkers, sneeches and flamenco grifters.


Not to mention poltroons masquerading as innovative musicians pushing the boundaries of flamenco beyond the ability of ordinary mortals to recognize it as such.

Bill




Leñador -> RE: Flamenco puro as world music (May 15 2018 17:36:33)

Caracol was a sell out. [:D]




joselito_fletan -> RE: Flamenco puro as world music (May 15 2018 19:54:05)

quote:

(the current crack is Dorantes pero tiene el gusto por el culo):


Orobroy is pretty nice





mark74 -> RE: Flamenco puro as world music (May 16 2018 0:40:56)

First video is a cover of a couple of 70's rumba classics







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