Basic left hand technique (Full Version)

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Inglés -> Basic left hand technique (Feb. 11 2018 9:57:44)

Any advice / tricks for getting the left hand position right, or any good instruction videos or exercises which cover this topic for the total beginner? I've had a grand total of three lessons, so literally nothing you tell me will be too basic, please feel free to patronise entirely!

I feel OK with it, not awful, but I do have bad habits (coming from a thumb-over-the-neck style which I can't help reverting to sometimes). The hardest bit is my little finger, in particular I find that I struggle to keep it away from touching the string below in a chord sometimes. I wonder if the contact point of the finger is too close to the knuckle, and should maybe be moved a few milimetres towards the nail if that makes sense.

Any help appreciated!



Piwin -> RE: Basic left hand technique (Feb. 11 2018 10:38:22)

Try reading through this thread. There were a lot of recommendations (if you're really beginning, I think the Pumping Nylon instructional video is a good place to start) and Erik van Goch went all out with the exercices. [:)]

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=306490&p=3&tmode=1&smode=1

For the little finger thing, maybe check that your hand is perpendicular to the fretboard. If you've got more of an open angle, then your little finger might be doing more of a flat stretch across the strings instead of the arch it's supposed to be doing, which could block the lower strings from ringing out.



Inglés -> RE: Basic left hand technique (Feb. 11 2018 11:52:11)

Cheers! Will read that



Ricardo -> RE: Basic left hand technique (Feb. 11 2018 15:45:07)

quote:

I wonder if the contact point of the finger is too close to the knuckle, and should maybe be moved a few milimetres towards the nail if that makes sense.


Yes it makes sense....you need to think about being more “on top” of the fingerboard rather than underneath it.



Inglés -> RE: Basic left hand technique (Feb. 11 2018 16:49:22)

I'm not sure I fully understand ... how could I be "underneath" the fingerboard?



Ricardo -> RE: Basic left hand technique (Feb. 11 2018 16:57:15)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Inglés

I'm not sure I fully understand ... how could I be "underneath" the fingerboard?



Ok, your fingers wrap around the bottom part of the fingerboard (toward the floor), then curve toward the strings. A lot of players allow the fingers to target notes on the D string say with the tips flopping down and the entire finger touching any strings below it (treble strings get muted). The idea is to stick your wrist out and allow the curve of the fingers to arch OVER those strings such that finger tip comes straight at the D string from “above” or from straight out infront of you , however the geometry of holding your guitar is. That is why piwin said “perpendicular” ....I take that angle to mean the FINGER TIP hits the string at a perpendicular angle to the fingerboard, allowing the strings underneath the fingers to be cleared and allowed to ring out if necessary when playing single notes on the D string or fretting chords that have the treble strings ring open.



Inglés -> RE: Basic left hand technique (Feb. 11 2018 17:35:41)

Right I get it, very helpful - thank you.

I do try to approach the string from that angle but it is pretty uncomfortable on the wrist at this stage! Just more practice needed I guess.

I did record a short video of my left hand while playing, I can't work out how to embed it into a post though, any help on that ... ?



kitarist -> RE: Basic left hand technique (Feb. 11 2018 18:03:40)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Inglés
I did record a short video of my left hand while playing, I can't work out how to embed it into a post though, any help on that ... ?


Use the "link" button and fill out the dialog box that pops up.




Result:



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rombsix -> RE: Basic left hand technique (Feb. 11 2018 20:45:21)

quote:

Use the "link" button and fill out the dialog box that pops up.


You know that if you just post the URL it automatically gets embedded, right? [8D]



kitarist -> RE: Basic left hand technique (Feb. 11 2018 20:52:01)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rombsix

quote:

Use the "link" button and fill out the dialog box that pops up.


You know that if you just post the URL it automatically gets embedded, right? [8D]


I know now :-) I guess I was assuming that the person tried the obvious and somehow it did not work. So I outlined what seems to be the canonical way. Sue me! [:D]

let's see:



Damn, it does work.



Ricardo -> RE: Basic left hand technique (Feb. 12 2018 2:29:23)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rombsix

quote:

Use the "link" button and fill out the dialog box that pops up.


You know that if you just post the URL it automatically gets embedded, right? [8D]

https://youtu.be/p4orXwHdK2Q

No it doesn’t



rombsix -> RE: Basic left hand technique (Feb. 13 2018 4:03:51)

quote:

No it doesn’t


Because that's a screwed up URL.

The URL has to be like this: https://www. youtube.com/watch?v=blablabla

(minus the space, of course)



joselito_fletan -> RE: Basic left hand technique (Feb. 13 2018 6:43:43)

quote:

I do try to approach the string from that angle but it is pretty uncomfortable on the wrist at this stage! Just more practice needed I guess.


Yes Sir, Practice Practice Practice! what the gents are saying is totally worth the pain. Apart from being more functional, It is also more "asthetic" in my personal opinion.
The proper technique will take you farther in the future.

I broke my left radial bone and destroyed my wrist years back. After operations and rehab I had to start from 0 with my left hand techniques. After a while and much pain my muscle memory started kicking in and my fingers came back sorta :o/ .it has left me with some nasty technical flaws because of lack of motion now in my wrist.
And now these flaws have hindered my playing in some aspects, cause I do not execute the proper technique. Yah I can get around it sometimes changing fingerings, but some stretches, phrasing up the neck now seem so painful and hard to reach when I could do it before.

Y desde entonces soy guitarrista palillero barbero :op

Cheers



kitarist -> RE: Basic left hand technique (Feb. 13 2018 17:03:15)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Inglés

Right I get it, very helpful - thank you.

I do try to approach the string from that angle but it is pretty uncomfortable on the wrist at this stage! Just more practice needed I guess.

I did record a short video of my left hand while playing, I can't work out how to embed it into a post though, any help on that ... ?


Posting a video would really help. I am worried that you are making some unnecessary sharp angles with your wrist in your attempt to curve the pinky over the fretboard - which can invite an injury. You should generally be able to keep a pretty straight or slightly bent wrist while comfortably keeping the LH fingers hovering over the fretboard like this:



[You] don't [have to] do this with your wrist:



The wrist angle is almost a free parameter in this, because what is relevant for good placement of LH fingers is that the top of the palm at the base of your fingers is close to [and parallel] to the treble edge of the fretboard. You can achieve this almost irrespective of wrist angle (within reason) as you vary the thumb position, the height of your shoulder compared to that of the neck, and the distance between your elbow and the fretboard.




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Inglés -> RE: Basic left hand technique (Feb. 13 2018 21:02:18)

Is it possible to post a video direct from my computer, rather than posting a URL? I don't think I actually have a youtube account. I doubt it's complicated to set up though, sure I can work it out



rombsix -> RE: Basic left hand technique (Feb. 13 2018 21:41:28)

quote:

Is it possible to post a video direct from my computer, rather than posting a URL? I don't think I actually have a youtube account. I doubt it's complicated to set up though, sure I can work it out


The file size is very limited on the foro, so YouTube is better...



joselito_fletan -> RE: Basic left hand technique (Feb. 13 2018 23:51:22)

quote:

I don't think I actually have a youtube account.


If you have a gmail account you can login to youtube with that



Inglés -> RE: Basic left hand technique (Feb. 14 2018 20:13:20)



Hopefully that works

Edit: yes it did. Sorry for the horrible quality audio though!



callemunicion -> RE: Basic left hand technique (Feb. 14 2018 20:51:49)

Hi Inglés, take a look at your right hand, you are doing the famous "cycling" that means you are not playing from the large joint of your fingers. It's very important to learn it that way to get a strong sound and prevent injurys.
here are two videos that are very good to learn the basics of the technique.




Piwin -> RE: Basic left hand technique (Feb. 14 2018 20:59:55)

I'm gonna go for the obvious one and let the others say the more important things:

put that pinky on a leash! [:D] Seriously though, your finger tips should stay close to the fretboard even when you're not using them. And the way you have that pinky straightened out when you're not using it, it's got to be creating unnecessary tension.

More generally, my guess is that you'd feel more comfortable if you let your arm dangle out a bit further from your body.



kitarist -> RE: Basic left hand technique (Feb. 14 2018 22:11:41)

Thank you for posting the vid. I think your thumb may be way too much toward the first finger - almost as if your LH grip is mostly the thumb-first finger clamp, and the 2-3-4 fingers are hangers-on. (Hard to see be sure from that angle though).

If so, this by itself creates an imbalance on your left hand and makes it difficult to do a proper LH setup (and for it to feel comfortable as you press down with 2-3-4 fingers rather than awkward).

Your LH thumb should be more opposite the second (middle) finger. So don't do as in this picture, but try to do as shown with arrows and the new positions (in blue) for the thumb and the line at the base of the fingers. Feel the more balanced counter-pressure (in green) from the thumb as you press down each of 1-2-3-4 fingers.



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Inglés -> RE: Basic left hand technique (Feb. 15 2018 19:18:57)

Bloody hell, plenty think about there. I was convinced you were all going to herald me as the second coming of Paco, what a kick in the teeth [:D]

callemunicion - take your point on the right hand, but I think I'm going to forget about that (for now) and focus on the left - too many things going on at once, y'know. Thanks though, I know exactly what you mean.

Piwin - that pinkie is mental isn't it, even I noticed that! I just shot another video while actively and consciously trying to keep it from darting around like mad, even then I couldn't keep control of the little bastard! It's going to take a bit of work to overcome that muscle memory I think.

kitarist - I don't think my thumb is anywhere near as bad as that photo, although could probably be improved. I'll keep working on it

Thanks for your time ladies and gentlemen, I appreciate the help very much. I will work on some of the stuff in this thread and maybe post a "new and improved" video at a later date if anyone's still interested.



Piwin -> RE: Basic left hand technique (Feb. 15 2018 19:50:04)

Don't worry my pinky used to do the same thing, probably even worse than that.

The exercice from atrafana I posted on that other thread really helped with that. You keep your fingers pressed on the fretboard until you have to move them so there's only one finger that's off the fretboard at a time. That exercice does a lot of things, and one of them is to get your fingers used to staying in position, even for after when you're not pressing down on the fretboard. It's really helped to keep my pinky "sane". [8D]



Inglés -> RE: Basic left hand technique (Feb. 18 2018 16:08:00)

OK I've done a bit of work based on some of the advice I was given upthread. Still a lot of work to be done but I think I'm on the right track - piwin, have a look at that pinkie reaaaaaally struggling to jump around while I do my best to control him! It feels like a separate entity sometimes...

I've a video of me playing the same phrase that was originally critiqued, plus I thought it might be useful to film myself doing a simple picado exercise (the same one piwin recommended above). Please feel free to comment if you want.

Solea phrase (BTW ... this is called a "remate", right....?):



Picado exercise:




Ricardo -> RE: Basic left hand technique (Feb. 18 2018 17:32:11)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Inglés

OK I've done a bit of work based on some of the advice I was given upthread. Still a lot of work to be done but I think I'm on the right track - piwin, have a look at that pinkie reaaaaaally struggling to jump around while I do my best to control him! It feels like a separate entity sometimes...

I've a video of me playing the same phrase that was originally critiqued, plus I thought it might be useful to film myself doing a simple picado exercise (the same one piwin recommended above). Please feel free to comment if you want.

Solea phrase (BTW ... this is called a "remate", right....?):



Picado exercise:




Seems you force the fingers to spread out too wide....watch this interview...several points throughout he plays some solea similar to your first video and he has way more relaxed look with fingers closer together but still on top:



devilhand -> RE: Basic left hand technique (Oct. 30 2021 17:46:05)

@Ingles
You have to correct your left hand position asap. My wrist hurts just by watching it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kitarist

Thank you for posting the vid. I think your thumb may be way too much toward the first finger - almost as if your LH grip is mostly the thumb-first finger clamp, and the 2-3-4 fingers are hangers-on. (Hard to see be sure from that angle though).

If so, this by itself creates an imbalance on your left hand and makes it difficult to do a proper LH setup (and for it to feel comfortable as you press down with 2-3-4 fingers rather than awkward).

Your LH thumb should be more opposite the second (middle) finger. So don't do as in this picture, but try to do as shown with arrows and the new positions (in blue) for the thumb and the line at the base of the fingers. Feel the more balanced counter-pressure (in green) from the thumb as you press down each of 1-2-3-4 fingers.



Your 12 o'clock thumb position (as shown with a green arrow) works fine when you play in a classical guitar position. In flamenco position I see 2 problems when playing scale runs and barre chords.

(1) Scale runs -> Big knuckles are not parallel with the fingerboard, particularly the big knuckle of pinky.
(2) Barre chords or using index finger as barre -> more arched wrist when you try to make your big knuckles parallel with the fingerboard.

11 o'clock thumb position will solve both problems. When playing bar chords or barring with index finger I see sometimes my thumb pointing to 10 o'clock (looks similar to thumb position in the picture above). This way I can keep my left hand wirst completely straight.

Does anyone see problems with my approach? I hope I found my ideal left hand position. Could you guys share here how your thumb reacts to different left hand fingerings when you play scale runs and barre chords?

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mecmachin -> RE: Basic left hand technique (Oct. 31 2021 16:28:18)

Oh dear, I have to change my watch to wintertime.



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