cante accompaniment question (Full Version)

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Gabewolf -> cante accompaniment question (Jan. 5 2018 15:11:11)

Hey guys! So there seems to be a consensus on the foro that if one can't afford to travel to Spain to learn to accompany cante the next best thing is to play along with recordings to really understand some basic letras and accompaniment. My question is: What are some good recordings to start playing to? Is there an album or set of songs that you guys started to play to in order to get comfortable understanding accompaniment? Also I'm not sure if there are any "standard" or super "common" letras that every cantaor knows and frequently sings that maybe I should be starting off with. My guitar teacher sings some bulerias letras and I accompany him, so I have a basic understanding of some of the structures. Thank you!



Ricardo -> RE: cante accompaniment question (Jan. 5 2018 15:51:27)

Finding tracks that are cante only is the trick for starters. We’ve done the work for you already:
http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=124692&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1



Piwin -> RE: cante accompaniment question (Jan. 5 2018 16:57:25)

You can get some more detailed info on cante structure at flamencopolis.com or canteytoque.es.

I asked the same question about "standard" letra when I first started out and my teacher said "just learn everything Camaron ever did". Which didn't do it for me because I'm not a big Camaron fan. So I took an anthology of someone I did like, Fosforito, and worked through that. Working through a full piece is very helpful I think, even better if you can transcribe it.



Dudnote -> RE: cante accompaniment question (Jan. 5 2018 21:22:31)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gabewolf
Also I'm not sure if there are any "standard" or super "common" letras that every cantaor knows and frequently sings that maybe I should be start with.

I don't know much, but I do enjoy working with old school recordings like Tomas Pavon, Chocolate, Manuel Torres, Caracoles etc etc. And yes, you do hear the letras of those old singers getting recycled and reused - which makes listening to cante more fun 'cause suddenly you're like "hey, I know where I heard that before".



joselito_fletan -> RE: cante accompaniment question (Jan. 5 2018 23:24:24)

quote:

You can get some more detailed info on cante structure at flamencopolis.com or canteytoque.es.


Thanks for the links! totally forgot that faustino put up the flamencopolis site, been watching his videos for years now.

My .2 cents on playing to cante is just to listen to it as much of it as you can. The older comercial stuff pre PDL - CDLI is great to learn from. It is "sota caballo y rey" , "llamada, tercios, cierre" kinda structure you want, none of the more modern fancy harmony or compas structure. 3 chord wheels is where you want to start, keep it simple and in compas, do not worry about falsetas, compas trumps fancy fingerwork, does not even have to be cante grande, you can start with cantes "chicos" like rumba,sevillanas, tanguillos. Enough of that stuff is floating around the youtubes to keep you busy for a while.

Cheers and Happy New Year!



Leñador -> RE: cante accompaniment question (Jan. 5 2018 23:47:51)

If your teacher is singing while you play you're on the right path. Easiest for me at least is Alegrias. There's is a lot less variation in melody compared to other palos. After that I'd say tangos, it's the only palo for me where I can hear a brand new(to me) letra and usually be able to play as I hear it sung. A bit too in solea por buleria.
Just memorize letras and their melodies one letra at a time. Be able to sing them, even terribly just for yourself. Eventually you'll begin hearing things where you'll say either "Oh I know that letra" or "I know a variation of that letra" or "I don't know that letra but the melody is just like this letra."



orsonw -> RE: cante accompaniment question (Jan. 6 2018 7:28:07)

I found it can be daunting as there are many variations and exceptions to rules. I would suggest rather than trying to learn general rules about everything just start with one cante and singer that you really like. Learn one recording of it in detail. This helped me to have some reference as I continued to learn, then general rules and exceptions started to make some sense. Often even the best singers didn't know everything, many had a few things they did very well. These were particular to their region and background. Of course as a guitarist one is expected to be able to accompany more than one singer's idiosynchracies !

Choose one singer that you really like and choose one cante of theirs. Look on youtube or listen to recordings of them being accompanied by one guitarist that inspires you. Copy them, learn what they are doing. Then find other versions with different guitarists accompanying the same singer/letra. Notice the different ways the same singer might choose to sing the same cante. Notice the different choices guitarists can make to support the cante. Gradually branch out into other singers/palos etc..

There are many threads about cante buried in the foro. Try using the search function.e.g.
http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=290244&mpage=1&p=&tmode=1&smode=1&key=solea

Of course the accompaniment thread Ricardo already linked is very useful.
http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=124692&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1



payaso -> RE: cante accompaniment question (Jan. 6 2018 10:52:44)

Yes that second link from 2010 is very helpful. Ricardo states succinctly what every accompanist should aim for: “the art of accomp is to keep compas and follow the singer on the fly with no rehearsal.”



Dudnote -> RE: cante accompaniment question (Jan. 6 2018 18:38:52)

quote:

ORIGINAL: payaso
on the fly ... no rehearsal

For sure this is the goal. But, to have enough tricks up your sleeve to pull that off, analysing how past masters do that is a great starting place. Learning to walk before you run and all that...



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