Enrique de Marchena – DVD (Full Version)

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Message

dreolino -> Enrique de Marchena – DVD (Nov. 13 2017 22:15:25)

First of all, damn, can't believe this foro is going to close. I learned a lot from you guys, even though i was always just reading I really enjoyed the falseta swap shop for instance...


Anyways, I just got totally into the two Marchenas, father and son.
I've seen, there is an encuentro of Enrique de Marchena but it's freaking expensive and I cannot afford it. 90€??

Anyone of you can recommend it?

Cheers!



jshelton5040 -> RE: Enrique de Marchena – DVD (Nov. 13 2017 22:27:01)

Can a father and son be less alike? I've always loved Melchor's playing and can't stand his son.



dreolino -> RE: Enrique de Marchena – DVD (Nov. 13 2017 22:32:17)

well, I guess uve seen rito y geografia. It's such a nice scene when Melchor talks proudly of his son, next scene enrique is playing a solea that pretty much blasted me away. And then Melchor answers with a much simpler but beautiful solea.

That is how I got into it. I'm not too much into the modern stuffs enrique did later. I actually hope to find some flamenco puro and some tricks of his dad on that DVD....is that an innocent hope?

ps.: any sources where I can have a good look on the fretboard of Melchor de Marchena. I found lots of videos but except rito y geografía none where I could actually see anything (ears not trained enough)



mark indigo -> RE: Enrique de Marchena – DVD (Nov. 14 2017 14:40:27)

quote:

I'm not too much into the modern stuffs enrique did later.

have you checked the date lately?

Enrique passed away in 2012.

Everything he played and recorded is now officially "old"


quote:

I actually hope to find some flamenco puro and some tricks of his dad on that DVD....is that an innocent hope?

depends entirely on your definition of "flamenco puro"

What you will find are Enrique's falsetas for a large number of palos, although in each style he only plays one or two falsetas.

If you don't like Enrique's playing accompanying José Mercé, José Menese etc. etc. and you don't like his solo albums, you don't like his playing, and you probably won't like the video.



Morante -> RE: Enrique de Marchena – DVD (Nov. 14 2017 17:04:47)

quote:

Can a father and son be less alike? I've always loved Melchor's playing and can't stand his son.


¡Ole! Melchor, Cepero, Moraito: these are tocaores[;)]



Leñador -> RE: Enrique de Marchena – DVD (Nov. 15 2017 3:15:37)

quote:

Can a father and son be less alike? I've always loved Melchor's playing and can't stand his son.

We're talking about Melchor de Marchena and Enrique de Melchor right??? Does Enriques' playing sound that much different to you?? He's got some videos with flutes and what not but if you look beyond the company he keeps his actual playing sounds pretty traditional to me no???



jshelton5040 -> RE: Enrique de Marchena – DVD (Nov. 15 2017 13:54:50)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leñador
We're talking about Melchor de Marchena and Enrique de Melchor right??? Does Enriques' playing sound that much different to you?? He's got some videos with flutes and what not but if you look beyond the company he keeps his actual playing sounds pretty traditional to me no???

To me, Melchor's playing was as unique as that of Diego del Gastor. His son was more in the PDL/Serranito arena without the originality or musicianship; but who am I to criticize? Either of them was more puro than I could ever have been.



mark indigo -> RE: Enrique de Marchena – DVD (Nov. 15 2017 17:18:18)

quote:

his actual playing sounds pretty traditional to me no???


exactly.
It depends where you draw the lines between what is and what isn't "traditional", "modern" "flamenco puro" etc. etc.
Pepe Habichuela said in interview something like "I'm too traditional for the modernists and too modern for the traditionalists"
Moraito is often held up as the pinnacle of traditional toque, but said in interview "I am from the school of Paco de Lucía"
And what was "modern" in the seventies is now part of the tradition, or considered "old"



Ricardo -> RE: Enrique de Marchena – DVD (Nov. 15 2017 18:12:19)

Enrique is a superior artist and highly underrated. Either people sort of forget about his work or consider him PDL wannabe but not as unique as his peers like Tomatito or Gerardo. His album Cuchichi for me is a master piece. The encuentro vid is exceptional, though he is a very shy teacher, can't play slow like Nunez but it's the typical Andalusian thing. THe ending concert footage gives you a lot to take home regarding accompanying the typical camaronero. I find his music very inspiring even though I spend much more time studying other players. Finally, the scene with Melchor talking with pride about his son in Rito y Geografia and the look on his face as the teen Enrique rips out that solea brings me to tears every time. Sure they are two very different kinds of players from different generations and literally bridging the traditional with the modern style as father and son, but the evolution itself seen right there is really beautiful to me, and both are superior artists IMO. Glad to have met him briefly before his death.



dreolino -> RE: Enrique de Marchena – DVD (Nov. 15 2017 21:38:51)

I feel you guys, except John for his statement ;)

I admire how he accompanies...incredible stuffs. Can't believe I stumbled upon him that late.

I'm just conservative in terms that I don't like when a big talent sings/ plays and someone messes the whole thing up with a flute or a bass which they did a lot in the 80s. And that's what enrique did, same for PdL.

Also true about that definition of "puro". For me puro means dry, rough, without effects...and kind of salvaje if you know what I mean.

thanks ricardo for that insights on that dvd.
I feel the same about father and son. It's touching to see that respect for each other between them and how the one generation hands the fire on to the next.

maybe it's the right thread to ask for more resources of melchor. What are your prefered videos except rito? I couldn't find much...
or maybe someone playing melchor's stuff really good where I could learn from....
apart from that I've started to try to play from discos just by ear. but it keeps tricky and time consuming



jshelton5040 -> RE: Enrique de Marchena – DVD (Nov. 15 2017 22:31:36)

Look for Melchor accompanying Mairena or Caracol. He worked with most of the greats of his time. He didn't do much solo playing except for one lp that I used to have. As a soloist he was no Ramon Montoya or Nino Ricardo but still fun to listen to.



Ricardo -> RE: Enrique de Marchena – DVD (Nov. 16 2017 11:47:56)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jshelton5040

Look for Melchor accompanying Mairena or Caracol. He worked with most of the greats of his time. He didn't do much solo playing except for one lp that I used to have. As a soloist he was no Ramon Montoya or Nino Ricardo but still fun to listen to.


Well, he actually played a lot Ramon's falsetas and I think his contribution to solo guitar was dynamics that were missing from some of the others from his generation. True he has not a large body of solo material to study, however we can still point to aspects of his playing that can be put to good use by solo players. I would like to point out there are countless examples of his son doing exemplary accompaniment of cante. Here is one for example, his father could have done no better IMO:



As for Melchor vids, man there is tons of good stuff in Rito, look no further. Here is a short promo clip you see him practicing with muted strings just like PDL:


And about flute and such "ruining" the flamenco, what he has going on here gives me chills with that deep and dark flute melody, ole!:



mark indigo -> RE: Enrique de Marchena – DVD (Nov. 16 2017 14:32:38)

quote:

Enrique is a superior artist and highly underrated. Either people sort of forget about his work or consider him PDL wannabe but not as unique as his peers like Tomatito or Gerardo. His album Cuchichi for me is a master piece. The encuentro vid is exceptional, though he is a very shy teacher, can't play slow like Nunez but it's the typical Andalusian thing. THe ending concert footage gives you a lot to take home regarding accompanying the typical camaronero. I find his music very inspiring even though I spend much more time studying other players. Finally, the scene with Melchor talking with pride about his son in Rito y Geografia and the look on his face as the teen Enrique rips out that solea brings me to tears every time. Sure they are two very different kinds of players from different generations and literally bridging the traditional with the modern style as father and son, but the evolution itself seen right there is really beautiful to me, and both are superior artists IMO. Glad to have met him briefly before his death.


agree. except I was initially put off Cuchichi a bit by the flute and preferred "Bajo La Luna", although that has a bit of "atmosphere" added in the form of nasty 80's synth [8|] and over-reverbed

both albums have great stuff IMO

for anyone that doesn't know, the bulerias with flute that Ricardo posted vid of is recorded on "La Noche y El Dia" album - also good alongside Cuchichi and Bajo la Luna. Also one falseta from that bulerias is on the Encuentro vid, with a tremolo intro.

for those that like less "modern"-ness Enrique's first solo album from mid 70's is very good. some of it is featured on the black and white videos on youtube that are also on "rito y geografia del toque"



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