Ricardo -> RE: Understanding what you're playing (Jun. 8 2017 15:17:53)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Erik van Goch quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo quote:
ORIGINAL: Erik van Goch I just remembered that when we started the flamenco department at Rotterdam Conservatory the classical based teachers in music theory and the history of music were not able to feel Soleares as being E-Phrygian, not even the ones teaching us about the old church modes like dorian, mixolidian, phrygian etc. To them soleares felt like A-minor ending on the dominant chord and they strongly felt soleares should end with an A-minor chord. Although this seems ridiculous to a flamenco trained ear don't forget we do a similar thing in Granainas were we tend to end with E-minor (although i remember discussions with my father putting that in a more nuanced perspective). No, granainas ends on the iv chord! [:D][:D][:D][:D][:D] That's an interesting discussion. We could argue that since we somehow feel the need to add that final Em chord in granainas we at least seem to flirt with the idea to feel it's tonality as Em rather then B-phrygian in which case that Em chord would be the I chord :-). Unless i'm mistaking it seems comparable with ending soleares with a finishing Am chord and to us that Am chord might be IV in the key of E phrygian, but if you mistakingly think soleares is written in Am (like above teachers of music theory were thinking) then TO THEM ending soleares on E feels like ending on the dominant V (in the key of Am). Still i remember a discussion with my father about that subject, comparing soleares and granainas and all i remember from that discussion is that somehow to him it was a different situation. Well, wasn't going to get into it but to put it simple....Solea singing is "in phrygian", where as Fandangos forms "flirt" with relative keys, both major and minor at times. So there is a difference. However, in the specific case of granaina, you have a situation where we transpose all of the malagueña forms into different keys such as Taranta, minera, etc, and key of E Arriba is used, as well as "por granaina" in B, essentially all the same form but different tonalities for accompaniment. NONE OF them end on iv EXCEPT granainas, and even then only sometimes. Why? Because RAMON MONTOYA did it....it's that simple. It was a little personal thing he did, and to boot he would put his fancy falseta AFTER the cantaor finished, sort of like "check me out!!!", but in a way it was a charming old school thing. Almost all modern players end their granaina on B for cante, UNLESS they want to deliberately harken back and "remember" montoya. Note, PDL ends on B for camaron, but on Em for his guitar solo, similar falsetas: https://youtu.be/cDzQv0kg2DQ https://youtu.be/3giko0UQQdM
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