palmas antiguas? (Full Version)

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tateharmann -> palmas antiguas? (Mar. 30 2017 13:31:06)

Hey folks,

I'm wondering if anyone has any info on palmas patterns as they would have been done in the late 19th/early 20th century?

I'd like to record some old compositions and I thought it might be cool to have a pattern to match.

Or maybe they haven't changed in 125 years?

Take, for example, soleares. I usually do mudas at + 2 3 + 5 6 + 8 + 10 + 12 with accents on 3, 6, 8, 10, and 12.

But I'm wondering if that would be period appropriate.

Any info appreciated!



Ricardo -> RE: palmas antiguas? (Mar. 31 2017 12:24:24)

quote:

Or maybe they haven't changed in 125 years?


This is true...


quote:

Take, for example, soleares. I usually do mudas at + 2 3 + 5 6 + 8 + 10 + 12 with accents on 3, 6, 8, 10, and 12.


That is for slowlea i.e. Modern baile. Too slow. Do whatever you do for solea por buleria these days. Likewise siguiriyas and tientos...basicallly any of that nonsensical slow dramatic stuff can go bye bye. Just normal medium speed is fine.

Ricardo



mark indigo -> RE: palmas antiguas? (Mar. 31 2017 13:51:24)

quote:

quote:

Take, for example, soleares. I usually do mudas at + 2 3 + 5 6 + 8 + 10 + 12 with accents on 3, 6, 8, 10, and 12.


That is for slowlea i.e. Modern baile. Too slow. Do whatever you do for solea por buleria these days. Likewise siguiriyas and tientos...basicallly any of that nonsensical slow dramatic stuff can go bye bye. Just normal medium speed is fine.

i would have said that palmas pattern was normal for Alegrias and Solea por Bulerias, although used slower as well for Solea. but for real slow "slowlea" you can also add some more on beats: 1+2 3 4+5 6 7+8 9+10 11+12



mark indigo -> RE: palmas antiguas? (Mar. 31 2017 14:04:05)

quote:

I'm wondering if anyone has any info on palmas patterns as they would have been done in the late 19th/early 20th century?


There are various wax cylinder recordings now available, you could check them out?

The earliest recordings i have are Juan Breva (with Ramon Montoya) from 1912/13. It's called "Arte Flamenco, Vol. 5: Cante de Antaño, Juan Breva 1844-–1918"
https://www.amazon.com/Arte-Flamenco-Vol-Cante-Anta%C3%B1o/dp/B00000AY4J

Also Antonio Chacon (also with Ramon Montoya) "La Cumbre de un Maestro" recordings from 1913 and 1927.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cumbre-Un-Maestro-Antonio-Chacon/dp/B000HOLD5A/ref=sr_1_5?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1490969227&sr=1-5&keywords=antonio+chacon

can't actually remember if either of them have palmas.... But there's a track on a Pepe de la Matrona album that definitely does. It was recorded in 1963, but he was born in 1887. "Pepe De La Matrona ‎– Grands Cantaores Du Flamenco - Volume 1" track 12.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Great-Masters-Flamenco-Vol-1/dp/B000027JQT/ref=sr_1_3?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1490969463&sr=1-3&keywords=pepe+de+la+matrona



tateharmann -> RE: palmas antiguas? (Mar. 31 2017 15:07:29)

Great thanks for the tips and resources!

I just remembered that 'nuestro flamenco' on Spain's Radio Clasica often plays historical recordings :)

I'm going to revisit that :)



mark indigo -> RE: palmas antiguas? (Apr. 6 2017 10:14:43)

quote:

late 19th/early 20th century?


did you find this one yet?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cilindros-Cera-Various/dp/B000HOM09S/ref=sr_1_414?m=A2O9660T0BZ61F&s=merchant-items&ie=UTF8&qid=1491472748&sr=1-414



tateharmann -> RE: palmas antiguas? (Apr. 7 2017 1:57:46)

Ooooooh I want that!!

One issue I'm facing is that there are plenty of oldish flamenco recordings but I'm hard pressed to find many with Palmas.



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