Madrid guitar builders with help. (Full Version)

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sartorius -> Madrid guitar builders with help. (Mar. 16 2017 8:55:33)

I've visited a number of guitar builders in Madrid recently and have noticed that even the few remaining big names are helped by at least their son(s) (or even daughter in the case of Ramirez) and/or apprentices.

To my knowledge the only one who builds his guitars alone nowadays in Madrid seems to be José Romero with about 50 years of experience on the field.



Echi -> RE: Madrid guitar builders with help. (Mar. 16 2017 11:45:28)

The old generation is gone (Arcangel, Faustino, Manuel Contreras, Paulino Bernabe', Felix Manzanero are not working anymore) but there are still many good luthiers actively working.
Pedro de Miguel is a brand now lead by a former official of Ramirez.
Arturo Sanzano is a former oficial de Ramirez as Jose' Romero, Manuel Caceres (who is recently helped by his son) or Miguel Malo.
Felix Manzanero retired in 2011 but his son started building guitars in '79, meaning he has already many decades of experience on his shoulder.
Leonardo Plattner started in 2011 (under Arcangel tutelage) but is regarded by many as a very promising luthier.
Mariano Tezanos (Former Ramirez) is still active as Teodoro Perez, even though now they work separately.
Marcelino Lopez Nieto is still active.
Jose Antonio Lagunar worked for many years in Contreras' shop and now builds guitar under his name. He is very cheap compared to others.
Casa Contreras is still open with the old staff as Ramirez.
Amalia Ramirez doesn't build directly any guitar as she leads commercially the company.
Mariano Conde builds himself the poema model (even though he is very expensive for this model).
For sure I forgot someone but hope this can help.



mqbernardo -> RE: Madrid guitar builders with help. (Mar. 16 2017 22:25:26)

Echi, I vow to your knowledge of anything Spanish guitar related.

Angel Benito Aguado is still working, mostly as an one man op. He had Yunah Park working there as an apprentice but it seems she's now building on her own.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Madrid guitar builders with help. (Mar. 17 2017 6:04:35)

Dont expect the guitar building in Madrid to keep on living as sole luthiers making guitars.
Madrid is now a modern capital which means its expensive and getting more and more expensive and a sole luthier cant make an income to follow that. Maybe those using factory components or ready made guitars will survive, but i doubt it.



Echi -> RE: Madrid guitar builders with help. (Mar. 17 2017 7:21:56)

Yunah Park and Angel Benito Aguado are of course active as guitar builders.
I forgot to mention them (as many others).
Many ex Ramirez luthiers started a kind of collaboration with the attempt to reduce the costs: For instance I was told that Tezanos prepares the necks for many luthiers and sells them for around 100 euro each (plus the cost of the wood), someone else makes rosettes, a couple of varnishers do the job for everybody but Contreras etc..
Beside of that there are some brands more successful than others and in case they need a surplus of production in Madrid it's easy to find well trained builders that want to get paid by the piece (often in black). .
I was told Tezanos and Perez were very involved with the Bernabe' guitars.
Then there is this strange Spanish thing: when a master retires you discover that some other luthier was "helping him" for the last ten years ( Arcangel guitars by Caceres or Hernandez y Aguado made by Marcelino Lopez Nieto, as he declared at Orfeo magazine).
in this sense Anders is absolutely right. It wouldn't be possible to work as one man shop but for the favourable circumstances and the good demand.
Until half of the eighties there was a huge request for the guitars made in Madrid (and for instance companies like Ramirez had in his book dozens of employees) while after Segovia departure the market slowed down for some years.
Once Ramirez, Contreras, Bernabe' or Conde etc were generally considered the top you could get, while today many people dream for other things: an hi-tech or a old school (Torres, Hauser etc) guitar.
Nonetheless there is still a good request and IMHO the average quality is very good. I'm very happy with my guitars made in Madrid.
Some luthiers (the first name that come to mind are Benito Aguado, Manzanero , Palttner, Lopez niego or Josè Romero) do everything but the varnishing.



Ricardo -> RE: Madrid guitar builders with help. (Mar. 17 2017 9:31:39)

This has always been the case since Ramirez. Not only that but M. Ramirez built a Torres (used a fake label) to prove that this was all just fine and dandy. Now in 2017 we complain about it. [:D]



Tom Blackshear -> RE: Madrid guitar builders with help. (Mar. 17 2017 9:56:18)

quote:

I was told Tezanos and Perez were very involved with the Bernabe' guitars.


And before that Manuel Adalid made them and other guitar houses, as well. But this was known for over a generation of builders and hasn't changed. It is an accepted way of doing business.

And the only reason most American builders aren't doing the same thing is that we don't have great access to those who are trained to do it.

You might say that the Spaniards have a microcosm of workers that operate as one to get the job done. This is the reason that builders like Arcangel Fernandez stayed in business for a long period of time.

And although my guitars are solely built by my hand, if I had the opportunity to subcontract my guitars to a good finisher, I would do it in a heart beat, especially if I could find someone in my own town, to avoid having the cost of shipping and inflated prices.



Echi -> RE: Madrid guitar builders with help. (Mar. 17 2017 10:50:33)

in the case of the Madrid school the Josè Ramirez way had a big influence.
The top journeymen of Ramirez in the company best age (Antonio Martinez, Paulino, Felix and Manuel Contreras) were accustomed to build from 3 to 4 guitars per month (being paid per guitar finished).
They could select the tops among those already jointed and thicknessed (usually at 2.8 thickness) and the necks. Other people would have provided the rosettes and done the varnish.
When the main journeymen started their own career, it was kind of natural to follow the same method in a bigger scale. They all knew each other and decided for a sort of collaboration.
For instance Felix Manzanero in the first years as independent shop, used to build around 40 guitars per year.
He could do it as he had a substrate of people providing services and products, which made easier to make a business.
The things later changed and the same Manzanero gradually drove to a one man shop (with the help of his son); as a consequence in the last 15 years of his career he used to make around 10 guitars per year.
The same thing could be said for many other makers.
Arcangel, Aguado, Plattner, Nieto are definitely artisans.
Ramirez, Contreras, Bernabe', Conde and maybe Pedro de Miguel could be better defined as small companies.

Arcangel and Conde would deserve a different chapter.



sartorius -> RE: Madrid guitar builders with help. (Mar. 18 2017 6:33:57)

Marcelino López Nieto is now helped by his son as he says in an El País article I've come across. He's one of the very few Madrid builders who weren't influenced by the Ramirez school.



avimuno -> RE: Madrid guitar builders with help. (Mar. 18 2017 9:55:07)

quote:

Pedro de Miguel is a brand now lead by a former official of Ramirez.


Echi, has the quality of their primeras remained the same since Pedro Perez passed away?



Echi -> RE: Madrid guitar builders with help. (Mar. 18 2017 15:01:26)

In my opinion the average quality is as good as before.



sartorius -> RE: Madrid guitar builders with help. (Mar. 19 2017 10:11:14)

...and there are still many people coming to the shop as I saw a few weeks ago. Nothing has really changed except that Pedro passed away...



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