crack! Can I repair it myself ? (Full Version)

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koella -> crack! Can I repair it myself ? (Jan. 28 2006 9:20:15)

Just got back my guitar from the repairman. New tuners, two cracks repaired, frets flattened.
230 E....... Ta-dah !

Now there's another crack on the back! I was planning to repair it myself.
Cause I'm not gonna spent another 100 E to get it fixed. The guitar is not worth that.

Could anyone help me please how to do it without making too big mistakes? ( I'm familiar with general woodworking )



koella -> RE: crack! Can I repair it myself ? (Jan. 28 2006 9:48:10)

Or is there a website with good advice ?



Gecko -> RE: crack! Can I repair it myself ? (Jan. 28 2006 10:52:46)

Here are a couple of places that give some general procedures and instruction. Nothing in great detail. But since you're familiar with wood working you should be able to follow them.

http://www.pjguitar.com/repair02.htm

http://www.guitarspecialist.com/cracks&.htm

I would appear to me that if one is familiar with wood working and have the proper clamps and other equipment then the most difficult part would be any refinishing that may be needed.

Good luck.



Doitsujin -> RE: crack! Can I repair it myself ? (Jan. 28 2006 12:14:52)

If the crack doesnt get bigger. Dont fix it by yourself.



Guest -> RE: crack! Can I repair it myself ? (Jan. 28 2006 16:02:03)

Koella, is there a chance that you can post a photo of the crack. There are millions of different cracks.

There are 2 general procedures.

Small fresh cracks: you simply work some very thin glue (hot hide glue or cyano (superglue) into the crack. If you do so, chose very thin cyanoacilicrate glue (superglue) Just a few drops at a time. I know your guitar is with nitro cellulose, so that´s whqat I find to be the best. Accept that there will be some glue left over. Then next time you visit me[:D], I´ll clean up the glue with a fine scraper and some micro mesh.

Bigger cracks. You have to glue something on the inside of the back.

And last. Do you have any idea why your guitar keeps cracking. Are you being a bad boy with it[:@]



duende -> RE: crack! Can I repair it myself ? (Jan. 28 2006 17:30:09)

thats my biggest worrie when i get your guitar Anders. cracks!!
my alhambra got a crack after 1 month or so. not big just along the neck where the body meets the neck. ahh why won´t i make pics [:D] hold on

im taking a rest while practicing so i have nothing better to do.[;)]



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duende -> RE: crack! Can I repair it myself ? (Jan. 28 2006 17:52:49)

pic2 i drew the white line to show the crack in photoshop since the pic was to blurry to see the crack



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duende -> RE: crack! Can I repair it myself ? (Jan. 28 2006 17:53:22)

pic 3

this is an opening in the side.



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Guest -> RE: crack! Can I repair it myself ? (Jan. 28 2006 19:18:32)

Henrik,

That crack (number 1) does does not look to well. It´s very rare that they crack all the way to the soundhole.

When you get your guitar, we´ll talk a bit about how how to avoid these things. The problem is that where you live, humidity might change very fast. from 80% to close to nothing within one day. Guitars stay in their cases, and get yourself a hygrometer. It´s not expensive and it´ll tell you when to worry. If you use a lot of central heating when it´s very cold and dry, you might need a humidifier. (It´s good for yourself as well, avoids cracks in the body[8D]).

The good thing is that I have a guitar in Chicago, where it is extremely dry in winter, and it´s holding up very well so far. Another thing is that my workshop is controlled. I have aircon, humidifier, dehumidifier, 2 hygrometers etc, so the guitar should be prepared, but no instrument made of thin wood survives the harsh changes of your climate if you dont take care.

Don´t worry now, we´ll figure it out.



koella -> RE: crack! Can I repair it myself ? (Jan. 28 2006 19:53:10)

Gecko and Anders thank you ! It's already fixed. I'll wait one day till I put new strings on her. And then let's wait...till the next crack.

@Anders: Yes of course I'm being a bad boy with it.[:D].
Well....the first two cracks were about 30 cm long. Maybe that's got sth.
to do with it ? And it's very (winter)dry, but I have those humidifiers (did I
make up this word? [:D])



duende -> RE: crack! Can I repair it myself ? (Jan. 28 2006 21:20:45)

thanx Anders.

I have a humifire (spellcheck) all the time. i wet it once a week. now in winter when it´s dry.



Guest -> RE: crack! Can I repair it myself ? (Jan. 29 2006 7:22:19)

Koella,

So how did you fix the crack?

Henrik, since you have a couple of guitars, maybe you should consider a room humidifier. You can tell your girlfriend that it´ll make your and her skin softer and with less wrinkles as well.[:D]

But most importand, get a hygrometer (some 150 Sv Kroner) The most important thing is that YOU know when it´s time to be carefull.



koella -> RE: crack! Can I repair it myself ? (Jan. 29 2006 9:25:16)

@Anders: Well, I used the site Gecko gave me. So I used just plain carpenterglue (the white stuff). Rubbed it in the crack from the inside with a toothpick.
Then I squeezed the sides of the guitar together very little with a clamp ( very tender)
With some weight I let the the one part of the back fit exactly to the other part, so the surface/joint is smooth.

Well, I didn't do as good as a job as the customizer. You can see the crack still, and it's not perfectly smooth. But hey, I already played on it and it sticks !
Too bad I heard too late of the superglue, otherwise I would have tried that.


Anders do you still have that 2a model? I foresee some more trouble with this guitar.[:)]



Gecko -> RE: crack! Can I repair it myself ? (Jan. 29 2006 10:48:49)

quote:

ORIGINAL: duende

thanx Anders.

I have a humifire (spellcheck) all the time. i wet it once a week. now in winter when it´s dry.


Here, in the desert southwest of the U.S. the average humidity, summer or winter, runs between 11-18%, so it is absolutely essential to keep my instruments humidified.

In the winter, when we do have to run the furnace, I place a sound hole type humidifier in my instruments and keep them in a room with a small room humidifier. In the summer we use evaporative coolers for cooling which adds a lot of moisture to the house. I still keep sound hole type humidifier in my instruments. Here, these have to be filled twice weekly, at least. Also, I live on a golf course and that tends to raise the humidity in the vicinity of my house in the summer which helps a lot.

Normally I do not case my instruments as I play often through-out the day. But when I do case them I place a sound hole type humidifier in the sound hole and a vented soap dish with a dampened sponge in it under the head stock, which serves to humidify the neck and fretboard. I also have an inexpensive hydrometer to measure the humidity levels.

The other thing to watch out for in low humidity environments is the "dishing" effect of the top. That is the top will start to get a concave shape to it. Normally, re-humidification for say two weeks or so can correct this.

The luthiers here, mostly just guitar shop owners, though a few of them are skilled repairmen, do a thriving business on crack repair and re-humidification.



duende -> RE: crack! Can I repair it myself ? (Jan. 29 2006 12:13:22)

my top is going a bit concave! i don´t see it improve either, i´ve had a humufier in my guitar case for 2 months.[&o]



Gecko -> RE: crack! Can I repair it myself ? (Jan. 29 2006 15:59:22)

quote:

ORIGINAL: duende

my top is going a bit concave! i don´t see it improve either, i´ve had a humufier in my guitar case for 2 months.[&o]


I'll bet if you measured the humidity in your case you would find it to be below 40% which is the minimum.

The luthiers here that deal with this take the guitar and place it in a small room which is maintained at 60% relative humidity, the upper limit of recommended humidity. They keep them in this environment for two or more weeks. It appears that this works in most cases.

The reason I'm so attuned to this is that I'm anal about maintaining my guitars and during a visit to a Santa Fe, New Mexico guitar shop a couple of months ago the owner showed me his high humidity room. It must have had 20 guitars in it with different stages of "dishing" plus those with cracks that he was trying to close before repair.



koella -> RE: crack! Can I repair it myself ? (Jan. 29 2006 17:54:45)

Here a photo of my guitar. The repaired crack is on the left side of the reflecting light
Sorry for the slow downloading.

([img=http://img458.imageshack.us/img458/6412/gitaar013.th.jpg]



pablus -> RE: crack! Can I repair it myself ? (Jan. 30 2006 9:08:43)

Henrik,
I live in Poland so we have similar, cold winters (2 weeks ago at night it was -35). I have an electronic hygrometer and an ultrasonic humidifier. This way
I keep the relative humidity always 40% or more. So far no problems with my nice Anders' blanca.

Pawel



Ryan002 -> RE: crack! Can I repair it myself ? (Jan. 30 2006 11:34:04)

What about air conditioning in the tropics? Will that affect my guitar adversely?



Guest -> RE: crack! Can I repair it myself ? (Jan. 30 2006 14:40:06)

air conditioning with a compressor dryes the air quite a lot, so if thta´s what you use, it should make it easyer to maintain a healthy atmosphere (35 - 75 rh)

But agin, a hygrometer will give you all the answers and will tell you when to worry. It costs so little compared to the cost of a guitar[;)]



duende -> RE: crack! Can I repair it myself ? (Jan. 30 2006 19:11:58)

Anders. today i went to Claes ohlsson (if you heard of it[:D]) i got on hygrometer for my case.
very small and analog and a digital to keep at home. i also got a humifire. electric.
you know our entire appartment is only 30-34% humdity!!![&:]

I put the humifire next to all my guitar cases witch was to only avalibe space realy.
will that be enough to get it up to 40% around the whole appartment?


Henrik



Guest -> RE: crack! Can I repair it myself ? (Jan. 30 2006 19:35:37)

That sounds good Henrik. And yes, 40% is ok, but maybe you should start with a bit more, some 45 - 50%. Just for a week or so in order to make the guitars suck up some humidity.



duende -> RE: crack! Can I repair it myself ? (Jan. 30 2006 20:32:13)

now i just have to convince Kristin to keep it one for a week. we had a HUGE electrical bill this time[:'(]

any good advice how to get the inside you your guitarcase up to 40%?
I have a humifire inside the guitar, the case doesn´t have a lot of space in it. I just put a damp rag in there but then the guitar hardly fits.



Skai -> RE: crack! Can I repair it myself ? (Jan. 30 2006 23:55:44)

Henrik, that's a MONSTER crack! And you make it sound like something trivial?!

Ryan, I do keep my guitars in an air-conditioned room. I've a small hygrometer which tells me that the air-con keeps the guitar at abut 55 - 60% humidity. A great improvement from my normal humidity here which can hit 80%.

I'm sure you experienced the heavy downpour recently. It made the humidity hit 90+%!! Even the air-con couldn't save it, it was 65% at the lowest point. I'm glad it's over and that it doesn't happen too often.

When the air-con is turned off, i use a sock-full of silica gel each in my soundhole and near the headstock. Keeps humidity at a max of 60%. A wonderful improvement. Get yourself a cheap digital hygrometer and keep it in your case, it costs only around SGD$30.

Cheston

PS. Ryan, out of curiosity, what guitars do you use? Electrics, classicals, acoustics, flamencos? I'm trying to find out what viable options there are for guitars in S'pore. [;)]



duende -> RE: crack! Can I repair it myself ? (Jan. 31 2006 8:19:19)

Skai.

the crack doesn´t affect the sound so, i try not to worrie. as long as it stays the same im fine.



Ryan002 -> RE: crack! Can I repair it myself ? (Jan. 31 2006 8:33:28)

Skai,
I have no electrics at the moment. I have one cheap classical, my first one, that was locally made (please don't ask), a Raimundo (flamenco) and a steel string Taylor (Jewel's signature model).

During the recent downpour my machine heads became dulled and tarnished very quickly, and the Raimundo repeatedly lost its tuning. I am hoping no serious damage was done. The Taylor seems to suffer the most, it's not made for our weather and when I move it from one room to another I immediately get problems like loss of tone, fret buzz or even reduced volume.

I have seen cracks far worse than the one in the picture that have been patched with only a minimal loss of sound. I once had a classical that went down a flight of concrete stairs, it was beaten up much worse but suffered only a minimal loss of quality after some patching.



Gecko -> RE: crack! Can I repair it myself ? (Jan. 31 2006 10:33:43)

quote:

ORIGINAL: duende

now i just have to convince Kristin to keep it one for a week. we had a HUGE electrical bill this time[:'(]

any good advice how to get the inside you your guitarcase up to 40%?
I have a humifire inside the guitar, the case doesn´t have a lot of space in it. I just put a damp rag in there but then the guitar hardly fits.


Duende:

Do you have any space at all just in front of the upper bout and/or under the headstock? Does you case have a storage compartment under the neck? Are you familiar with the plastic soap containers that people use to carry soap with them when they travel? If so is it possible that you could fit one or more into any of these areas? If you can I will give you some ideas of how to use them.



duende -> RE: crack! Can I repair it myself ? (Jan. 31 2006 11:24:56)

i put a wet rag inside a sock[:D] but it in the whole uner the neck.
also a little piece of cloth under the head. And the humifire inside my guitar.
that should do it, right?[:D]



Skai -> RE: crack! Can I repair it myself ? (Jan. 31 2006 13:34:59)

Ryan,

Seeing that you got a Raimundo, I assume that it's from Tomas Music? It appears to be found only there. And so I suppose that your classical guitar is either Tomanico, Maestro or Harvest? I'm assuming it's Tomanico and I've heard rather horrible comments from my friend. Meastros are surprisingly good for the money, the owner claims that his builders used to work for the brand Asturias.

Any comments on your Raimundo? Like price and model number? How's the sound and feel? Their cheapest model was one of my previous choices but it never really impressed me. I find that the flamenco guitars I've tried at Tomas Music rather sloppy. I've only tried about 5 brands, mostly lower end, including the PdL lowest model. It honestly wasn't good.



Gecko -> RE: crack! Can I repair it myself ? (Jan. 31 2006 15:43:15)

quote:

ORIGINAL: duende

i put a wet rag inside a sock[:D] but it in the whole uner the neck.
also a little piece of cloth under the head. And the humifire inside my guitar.
that should do it, right?[:D]


I can't answer your question. Here is what I would do, given your apparent tight case, assuming you can't get your Hydrometer in the case with the guitar to take a measurement.

1. Remove the guitar from the case.
2. Remove the sound hole humidifier from the guitar.
3. Leaving the guitar out of the case put your dampened sound hole humidifier, damp cloths, rags etc in the case where they would normally be.
4. Put your hygrometer in the case and close the case.
5. Wait 4-5 hours, open the case and read the hydrometer.

Is it less than 40% RH?

The wet rag in a sock concerns me as it could eventually damage your finish, particularly if its French Polish, if it is touching the guitar.



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