Basic Tangos (Full Version)

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tateharmann -> Basic Tangos (Feb. 15 2017 0:27:31)

I was quite encouraged by Ander's video post on simple tangos here: http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=214566&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1 - so I went looking for more... and I found this one:



I love the way he explains it and starts out with the most basic way to play it and then adds adornos and such. I don't know enough about flamenco to tell if this guy is legit or not but he seems amazing to me. Besides guitarrista, he appears to dabble in cante and palmas too!

Anways, his version "complicada" that starts at 4:30 is what I'm after. I've transcribed it here. Does this look right? Should his "pequeno silencio" in fact be an eighth note rest?

Thanks!

I'll add adornos and melody later.



Leñador -> RE: Basic Tangos (Feb. 15 2017 5:15:47)

He's legit, He's no virtuoso player but he's a solid all around flamenco.

You're PDF is off amigo. Your missing all the light up strokes, you don't necessarily want that high E ringing all the time on the down strokes and you're C chord isn't correct. I don't have time to run through all of it but you don't need to be so concerned with writing all this down and just make it sound like him, every detail. He has no unnecessary ornaments in there.



timoteo -> RE: Basic Tangos (Feb. 15 2017 5:57:23)

I personally have found that attempting to transcribe something really helps me understand what's going on, so if that's true for you too please ignore Leñador's suggestion to forget about writing it down. Transcribing is of course not necessary for learning the material, but if it suits your style of learning go for it!

That said ... all your arrows are wrong. An "up" arrow (from bass to treble notes) should indicate a "down" stroke (also from bass to treble). You indicate the opposite.

As Lenny said, you transcribed a C7 where it's typically a C, but the video uses a C7 so you transcribed it correctly. Also, typically you would use a Bb that looks like x10330 instead of x13330, but the video does show the latter so again you're technically correct ...

For the golpe, you should make it look more like a normal note, with a stem, so we can see how much time it takes ... Your first measure looks a little funny because of the three eighth-note grouping - I would expect to see an eighth-note golpe plus a solitary eighth-note then a pair of tied eighth notes for the second beat.

Lenny also says "Your[sic] missing all the light up strokes", (sorry Leñador, I can't bring myself to cite incorrect grammar, that's on me ... :-) which is true, but perhaps overly pedantic. If you transcribed it showing only the e, or only the e and b string being struck on the upstroke then it would look messy/complicated and would obscure the fact that the entire chord is being gripped the whole time. When you transcribe flamenco you have to make tradeoffs, and I think it's a typical and acceptable tradeoff to show the entire chord and assume the player knows that the upstrokes are supposed to hit mainly the trebles and the downstrokes are supposed to hit mainly the basses. That's part of the "swing" of flamenco which doesn't transcribe well.



timoteo -> RE: Basic Tangos (Feb. 15 2017 6:28:26)

and as an aside ...

I miss Anders' uploads. The 1-finger rasgeado series was awesome.



tateharmann -> RE: Basic Tangos (Feb. 15 2017 14:26:22)

Thanks folks!

So my arrows are backwards??? Hahaha sorry about that, I'll fix it up and repost :)

And yes, if you watch the video you'll see that he plays a C7 for the rueda.

He also doesn't mention the light upstrokes (but he is playing them), I'm assuming you mean at the end of measures 2, 4, and 6?

And, yes, I'm transcribing it out to understand it better and to build my own tangos :) maybe that's a nerdy classical guitarist thing to do (that's what I am hehe) - so, sorry if it is lol. I mostly wanted to know if my note values were correct per what he's doing/playing at 4:30 in the video.

Good to know he's legit I checked out his other videos - he's got some good stuff.



Leñador -> RE: Basic Tangos (Feb. 15 2017 14:48:50)

Ah, you did get his C right, not the C I would've expected. I expected x3233x

Site this here, I gets writing falsetas down, wut i doesn't gets is writing a chord progression with notes. Specially wen the notes doesn't even reflecting the entire vibe of the progression. Thars be a reason they hand out chord charts in jazz and not the individual notes.



tateharmann -> RE: Basic Tangos (Feb. 15 2017 15:19:42)

Right, what I'm planning on doing here is making sure my note values and such are more or less right, and then I'm going to build my own falseta borrowing bits and pieces and adding my own stuff too.

But I'm going to revamp this pdf right quick on both of your suggestions and repost :)



Piwin -> RE: Basic Tangos (Feb. 15 2017 15:20:12)

I would add a quaver above all of your golpes. Or else it's a bit confusing duration-wise.
It's pretty common to see that rasgueado marked as triplet. I personally prefer to think of it as a flam so if I write it down I kind of cheat and write it down as grace notes. But I might be on my own on this one. My reasoning is that if you were to slow it waaayy down, I'm pretty sure most flamencos would play a tight rasgueado that would be much faster than the triplet. At regular speed though, it's basically the same thing. Don't know if that makes sense.



tateharmann -> RE: Basic Tangos (Feb. 15 2017 15:23:52)

I actually thought of making them grace notes at first, but then I saw that same ras. marked as a triplet in a Juan Martin book so I went with that.

And, yep, I'm going to turn that golpe into an actual note value, thanks!



Piwin -> RE: Basic Tangos (Feb. 15 2017 15:45:00)

Yeah that's usually how they write it down. I guess it's one of those "tradeoffs" of transcribing flamenco that timoteo mentioned.
I don't know where you're at in flamenco so this might be not be a useful comment to you but just in case (and I'll admit I didn't watch the whole vid so maybe he explained it somewhere in there):
whether you write it down or not, you have to bear in mind the underlying rhythmic structure or compas. If you're planning on creating your own stuff, it's easy to just think 4/4 or 2/4 and forget where the strong beats actually are, and then the end result would fit but musically speaking it wouldn't be tangos. Most flamenco sheet music don't do anything in particular to highlight the compas, but it really is the most important thing to know since the entire music is articulated around it.



tateharmann -> RE: Basic Tangos (Feb. 15 2017 15:57:42)

Thanks! Admittedly I'm not far in flamenco, but I am aware of the palo here in tangos of making beats 2-4 strong and resolving in 8 beats (2 compases), right?

I tried making beats 2, 3, 4 bold in the pdf but it may not have appeared as such.



Piwin -> RE: Basic Tangos (Feb. 15 2017 16:00:59)

Oh wow, you did! I hadn't noticed. I guess I'll shut up then [8D][:D]



tateharmann -> RE: Basic Tangos (Feb. 15 2017 16:01:31)

And I should add, my end goal is not to be a virtuoso, I actually know a dancer and my wife and I have been learning palmas so I just basically want to be able to play para acompañar. But a little interesting flare here and there would be cool too.



Leñador -> RE: Basic Tangos (Feb. 15 2017 17:40:26)

quote:

And I should add, my end goal is not to be a virtuoso, I actually know a dancer and my wife and I have been learning palmas so I just basically want to be able to play para acompañar.

That's excellent! Most want to be Paco from the get go and just having that as a primary goal sets them on the wrong path.
If this is the case it's especially important for you to be able to just feel the Compás. Tangos and rumba are both 4/4 and strong 2, 3, 4 but they're not played the same really. So try to learn the tiny intricacies of what makes a palo feel like a palo.

You should get to a point where all you need is chords and you can just make it feel like the palo. I had a pro guitarist ask me the day before to play a sevillanas and a tangos with him on a stage the next day with some letras/melodies I wasn't entirely familiar and confident with. I made a tiny chord chart I put on my knee and everything worked out more or less because even though I didn't know those melodies well I knew how it should feel.



tateharmann -> RE: Basic Tangos (Feb. 15 2017 18:53:53)

quote:

That's excellent! Most want to be Paco from the get go and just having that as a primary goal sets them on the wrong path.


Thanks, I do appreciate that. I don't know how anyone could.. ever.. even think that they could be on the same level as PdL jaja. That's just setting up for failure lol.

Anyways, yes, I've been working on the palos and trying to get them impressed on my little brain. I've been working on soleares at the same time.

Here's my new pdf - I abandoned the chord symbols and went with tab as that seems the way most flamenco notation is. I've also changed my chords to the two that you recommended and per Timoteo's correction I've flipped the direction of the ras. arrows. Not sure how I missed that, thanks!

I guess my post subject should have been, "Please check my flamenco notation, and watch this cool video." haha

I'm also doing this to see if MuseScore 2 can do what I need it to for flamenco composition.

Thanks again!



Dudnote -> RE: Basic Tangos (Feb. 15 2017 21:50:02)

Perhaps these can help...
http://tomaflamenco.com/en/lessons/28-tangos-rhythm-exercises
http://tomaflamenco.com/en/lessons/38-tangos-de-triana-y-extremenos
http://tomaflamenco.com/en/lessons/31-tangos-flamencos-one-falseta
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWMowTqivc7KiDdPXZhU4uqqogiGZBJ68

And the letras in your original video are from here

and here


...the letras are here
http://www.musica.com/letras.asp?letra=887673
http://www.musica.com/letras.asp?letra=805560

Enjoy!!



tateharmann -> RE: Basic Tangos (Feb. 16 2017 0:19:25)

Awesome thanks, dudnote!

I'll check all of that out :)



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