Imprecise work - need advice (Full Version)

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Vince -> Imprecise work - need advice (Jan. 11 2017 6:39:54)

Normally I do not make a separate Heelcap.
In the hustle and bustle of the day two mistakes happened.
At first I took too much material to make a miter of the purflings. Then I cut the purflings too short to get a clean joint. Everything else has become very good.
This has not happened for a long time, but making mistakes is not hard as you can see!
I do not want to fill up here because it will always look like bad work.
I thought about lengthening the heelcap in the back, what do you think of it?
Version 1 with a small triangle of Rosewood and a Maple Heelcap and Version 2 only with a RW cap.
Are there any other suggestions to fix this?







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estebanana -> RE: Imprecise work - need advice (Jan. 11 2017 8:20:49)

Make the miter on the binding, set the heel cap down into the miters, but don't sink the triangle into the back strip! Use a dark rosewood to make the heel cap.




Vince -> RE: Imprecise work - need advice (Jan. 11 2017 9:53:16)

Hello estebanana,

Is version 3 what you mean?



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jshelton5040 -> RE: Imprecise work - need advice (Jan. 11 2017 14:33:29)

I think Stephen Eden does his heel cap like your third version. It looks fine, he recently had some posts on building a cedar top negra which if I recall shows his heel.




estebanana -> RE: Imprecise work - need advice (Jan. 11 2017 18:37:50)

You still have one more chance to be clean and keep your basic binding scheme:






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estebanana -> RE: Imprecise work - need advice (Jan. 11 2017 18:49:07)

Or split the backstrip and miter it in something like this:



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Vince -> RE: Imprecise work - need advice (Jan. 11 2017 19:07:09)

Thanks for your support.
It's already fixed.
I post a picture soon after I have cleaned all up.
This forum is a really nice place[:)] with nice luthiers!




Escribano -> RE: Imprecise work - need advice (Jan. 11 2017 19:35:27)

quote:

This forum is a really nice place with nice luthiers!


Yep, thanks to everyone for helping Vince. That is the kind of global cooperation which we take so much for granted nowadays.

Look forward to the fix.




estebanana -> RE: Imprecise work - need advice (Jan. 11 2017 20:51:56)

It's fun to talk shop! Good luck with it.




Vince -> RE: Imprecise work - need advice (Jan. 12 2017 16:51:34)

Thats how it looks now! I decide not to make a joint in the Maple Stripe because it will always be visible in light colored wood. (Heel not yet formed)







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Anders Eliasson -> RE: Imprecise work - need advice (Jan. 13 2017 7:55:22)

Vince, on my pc there´s only 1 picture and that is of a rosette. There also seem to be 2 broken images above.
I was curious to see your solution. [;)]




Vince -> RE: Imprecise work - need advice (Jan. 13 2017 8:20:02)

Hy Anders,
sorry
the picture is also fixed [;)]




Wayne Brown -> RE: Imprecise work - need advice (Jan. 13 2017 14:27:54)

Great save Vince!




Anders Eliasson -> RE: Imprecise work - need advice (Jan. 13 2017 16:32:14)

Yes, it looks elegant.
May I ask you how thick your bindings are?




Vince -> RE: Imprecise work - need advice (Jan. 13 2017 18:08:12)

You can asked me nearly everything Anders!

I make my bindings normally 2,5 mm wide. I route the channel 2,5 mm and install the 2,6mm Binding.
When I use ebony or another brittle wood I go for 2mm, but all depending on the overall scheme I have planned.
If I use 2,5 mm I set the tentelones next to each other or use solid linings to avoid glue running inside.

Please note, the binding is only the Maple, the Purfling at the back is set separate and is 1,5mm wide.




Tom Blackshear -> RE: Imprecise work - need advice (Jan. 13 2017 18:45:29)

Vince, I would remove the heel cap and install one the same color as the back, and then cut the line only where it covers the purfling mistake, IMHO.

I know that little things like this sometimes mess with your mind but it's "All in the game," as the song goes.




Anders Eliasson -> RE: Imprecise work - need advice (Jan. 14 2017 8:23:11)

I like the look of thick bindings, but I dont like what it does to the guitar structurally.
If you rout away the thickness of the side, then the side itself will only be glued to a very small part of the tentellones or the back lining. And thats not very strong
It is structurally a lot stronger to make a thinner binding and glue them on what is left of the sides after routing.
So, IMHO, a 2,3mm thick side should have something like 2mm routed away. That way the binding makes the guitar structurally stronger and not weaker.

It is of course only my opinion and others may not agree.




Njål Bendixen -> RE: Imprecise work - need advice (May 3 2017 12:59:03)

Anders

Very interesting!

Have you considered that the strength of the plate-side joint affects the sound? It is not just a structural consideration. From violins I know that the stronger the linings the brighter the sound, and that the smaller the linings the darker the sound. So the dimensions of the linings are first of all an acoustic consideration.

I a not saying that one configuration is better than the other one, I am just saying that it affects the overall balance of the instrument and it depends on everything else that you do. Ok, yes, this is a minor criteria, not a major one like the thickness of the front. Just one more thing to think about.


Njaal


quote:

I like the look of thick bindings, but I dont like what it does to the guitar structurally.
If you rout away the thickness of the side, then the side itself will only be glued to a very small part of the tentellones or the back lining. And thats not very strong
It is structurally a lot stronger to make a thinner binding and glue them on what is left of the sides after routing.
So, IMHO, a 2,3mm thick side should have something like 2mm routed away. That way the binding makes the guitar structurally stronger and not weaker.

It is of course only my opinion and others may not agree.




Vince -> RE: Imprecise work - need advice (Jun. 13 2017 18:01:04)

Finally everything comes out very well.
Sound sample:
https://youtu.be/SrbIcTdDBhc?list=PLwmlKrBxxGYpDAQlCe7Y2NdJUgWWz0aVq




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