Mark2 -> RE: Divisive ignorance (Nov. 12 2016 21:38:13)
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I grew up in San Francisco, the most liberal of cities, but it's not because of the people who were born here. The folks I grew up with are a lot more conservative than the average person who lives here. In fact, many natives are very conservative, perhaps because we have seen first hand what extreme liberalism has done to the city. Bill I really appreciate your views in this discussion but disagree with employer sanctions being the cure for illegal immigration. The fact is the government wants the illegals here, and so does big business. They depress wages, which means more money for the business owners, no matter if they actually hire illegals or not. Every morning hundreds of illegals gather in front of various locations hoping to get hired for the day. It would be a simple matter to pick them up and deport them, but they don't. Expecting people, be they business owners or someone who simply wants their lawn cut, to ignore this cheap labor pool is unrealistic. Joe the gardener wants 200.00 to remove that tree but Jose is willing to do it for $50.00 cash. You are never going to stop people from hiring Jose unless you deport him. As a small business owner, I perform many tasks for the government for free. I collect and remit all sorts of taxes, produce and keep all kinds of records, and if I fail to do something on time, I pay fines. I don't want to be an unpaid ICE agent as well, when the government has made a clear decision to let illegals remain in the country. My city government has also made the decision to ignore immigration law and shield illegals from ICE, but business owners are supposed to enforce this law? Absurd. It's pretty clear the populace is largely against liberal immigration policy, and this was a key issue in Trump's campaign. As it happens, my company works a lot for the government and my employees have to pass FBI background checks, so although I am in no position to hire undocumented workers, they work in vast numbers in my trade. THis hurts everyone in the trade except people who hire them. And recently a competitor who did use illegal labor was charged with two counts of manslaughter because two men died in his employ. So, I think the risk of using people who aren't covered by worker's compensation is pretty serious as it stands. Finally, these protests over the election are certainly heartfelt, but are IMO a waste of political energy. Trump is going to be sworn in, and he will be the President. Saying "He's not my President" doesn't make it so. I think they would be more effective if they organized and created a political force. Worked fairly well for the Tea party folks. As an American, I wish for the success of every president, and Trump is going to take more wishing than most. quote:
ORIGINAL: BarkellWH quote:
Funny how the big cities are blue......always. It's like the only people worried about immigrants don't even live near any....... I think we must be careful to draw a distinction between the yahoos who just don't like immigrants, i.e., "foreigners," particularly of the non-European variety, and those who have a legitimate concern about the number of illegal immigrants coming into the U.S. It is one of the elements of sovereignty that a country has the right to determine who may enter and live within its borders, and it is true that over the last 30 years there has been a huge number of illegals entering and remaining in the U.S. Advocates for illegal immigrants don't like to make that distinction, and too often they brand those who want to crack down on illegal immigrants while being perfectly open to legal immigration as "anti-immigrant." That is simply not the case with many people. Here in the Washington, DC region, particularly in Northern Virginia, as well as in all of the border states such as Arizona, Texas, and California, the local school systems must provide the children of illegal immigrants, most of whom entered illegally with their parents, with an education. It really puts a strain on the financial resources devoted to education. It is often said by advocates for illegal immigrants that they pay more in taxes than they take in community resources. I have never seen a valid study that confirms that, and I doubt it to be true. Most illegals don't make enough to reach the taxable income threshold and are paid "off the books" in any case. I suspect that when one factors in emergency health care, pediatric care, and other services that would not be turned down when truly needed, Illegals gain considerably more than they contribute to the public coffers. My own position on the subject of illegal immigration is that we must legalize those 11 million or so who are here. There is no way we could, or should, deport all of them. Some should be deported for criminal behavior or other reasons. But the vast majority should be legalized in some capacity. I would like to see the Immigration law reformed to put primary emphasis on accepting immigrants who possess the skills that we need. The UK, Australia, Canada, and other countries place a premium on immigrants that possess needed skills. We should, too. In particular, it is crazy that we force foreign students who finish PhDs in physics, chemistry, engineering, and other fields to return to their countries. Many would love to remain here, and we need them. I would like to see us be much more proactive, however, in stopping the flow of low-skilled and non-skilled immigrants flowing across the border from Mexico and Central America. One way to do this would be to severely sanction businesses who employ them. We simply don't need all the mothers, kids, and others coming in from Central America. We cannot build a "wall," but more border enforcement, coupled with the "E-Verify" system that would identify whether or not a prospective immigrant employee had a work permit, as well as severe employer sanctions, would put a huge dent in illegal immigration. And I do think that the distinction should be clearly made between those of us who welcome legal immigrants but would like to stem the flow of illegal immigrants, and those yahoos who just don't like immigrants, legal or illegal. Bill
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