Working on Son de Campanas (Full Version)

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Dudnote -> Working on Son de Campanas (Oct. 24 2016 7:15:48)

As the saying goes, "if it's not in compas it's not flamenco", so thought I'd upload this in off topic [:D] For what it's worth, here's a quick take of working at the Paco Pena seguiriyas Son de Campanas. Plenty of mistakes and wobbles, no need to list them all, but figured it was more flamenco than a jar of marmite [&:]

Standard replies to a Dudnote upload apply - work on compas, work on rasgueo, learn the piece, change your microphone, change your meteronome, change your strings, don't give up the day job. Did I miss any?




minorthang -> RE: Working on Son de Campanas (Oct. 27 2016 10:40:54)

Next time clean up !

no really fantastic man its a great palo sounds fine in your hands .



Gabewolf -> RE: Working on Son de Campanas (Dec. 30 2016 2:14:03)

Glad I found you playing this! About to learn this one after I finish the farruca out of that book. It's good to have a video to get a visual of someone playing it.



Dudnote -> RE: Working on Son de Campanas (Dec. 30 2016 2:36:16)

Thanks for the comments guys. Not played that one for a while, it's all gone a bit Alegrias in Do here since that upload. Would like to get a cleaner recording together someday though. Good luck with it Gabe. I find following the PP recording quite challenging where he accelerates on a pulgar run.



Leñador -> RE: Working on Son de Campanas (Dec. 30 2016 2:38:47)

Jesus man your a monster for even getting through that piece! I wouldn't even attempt it, I don't have the agility or determination. Good work.
My critiques would be it sounds a bit tight and forced but just keep playing it and that should sort itself out. Ole Dud!



rombsix -> RE: Working on Son de Campanas (Dec. 30 2016 3:34:19)

Dave, I would steer away from the mentality of tackling this as a "piece" but rather approach this material as a series of falsetas. Flank each falseta with chording compas and only move to the next falseta when you've got the first one down in compas. I tried to resist in the past and attempted to approach Guajiras de Lucia as "a piece" thinking I'd keep going through the whole thing time and again until the whole thing tightened up into a series of neat falsetas in compas. I then realized the "divide and conquer" approach as suggested by Ricardo and Todd made more sense, and I started to go through the material falseta by falseta, flanking each one with chording compas. Doing so allowed me to make MUCH more sense of each falseta, and actually helped me get something "tangible" under my fingers that was immediately or more readily usable (one tight falseta at a time, rather than one entire wobbly "piece" at a time that I'd have to keep qualifying with "OK so listen to this, but I still don't have it down yet, but anyway here it is" followed by someone frowning at me). [8D]

The reason I am saying this is that some of the material that is pretty straightforward in what you recorded is still quite shaky compas-wise, so it makes little sense to me for you to advance to the more syncopated / tricky rhythm parts before nailing down the simpler falsetas. I think the risk if you tackle this as a piece is that you'll go through it so many times as "a unit" and probably keep repeating the same rhythmic mistakes and internalize them. Then you'll have to unlearn the bad habits and re-tackle the certain (hard) falsetas from scratch, so why do the work twice if you can do it more effectively from the get-go?

[:)]



Dudnote -> RE: Working on Son de Campanas (Dec. 30 2016 3:48:17)

Thanks guys.

Yep, makes sense Ramzi. [;)]



rombsix -> RE: Working on Son de Campanas (Dec. 30 2016 3:55:32)

quote:

Yep, makes sense Ramzi.




[:D][8D]

I actually think my technique back then (four freakin' years ago now!!!) was much better than it is now (except the pinky that sticks out). [:D]



Leñador -> RE: Working on Son de Campanas (Dec. 30 2016 4:02:48)

compas was shaky Ramz lol [:D]
I'm with Ramzi, I just practice random falsetas and compas these days, it's more satisfying and the things I do know I know really well. If I decided to learn a piece I'd break it up and it'd take me a year but I'd know it pretty well. Focusing on one piece only at a time is way too daunting. Super confident compas strumming is a lot of times more impressive than intricate falsetas played with a struggle.



rombsix -> RE: Working on Son de Campanas (Dec. 30 2016 4:59:07)

quote:

compas was shaky Ramz lol


No way! [8D][:D] It was just "convenient rubato". [;)]



Dudnote -> RE: Working on Son de Campanas (Dec. 30 2016 11:31:18)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rombsix

quote:

Yep, makes sense Ramzi.




[:D][8D]

I actually think my technique back then (four freakin' years ago now!!!) was much better than it is now (except the pinky that sticks out). [:D]


If I ever end up in a bar fight in Andalucia I hope you're there to help me out Ramzi. Man, you got perseverance when the going gets tough !![8D]

Did you ever get some of those falsettas down a bit better? I always found that middle section that goes super high up the neck to be quite a bit harder than the rest of it.

Actually, I often use the modular approach too. But sometimes it's nice to have a set piece down too. But Lenny's right, being well versed in the modular approach is way more useful when jamming with others.

Vamos!!



rombsix -> RE: Working on Son de Campanas (Dec. 30 2016 12:26:31)

quote:

Did you ever get some of those falsettas down a bit better?


This is as far as I got. [:D]

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2280FE61B4B7B1AE



BarkellWH -> RE: Working on Son de Campanas (Dec. 30 2016 14:49:23)

quote:

Standard replies to a Dudnote upload apply - work on compas, work on rasgueo, learn the piece, change your microphone, change your meteronome, change your strings, don't give up the day job. Did I miss any?


You're too hard on yourself, Dud. Actually, you do very well. I agree with Ramzi and Lenny that you should work on the "modules" and get the falsetas refined in a modular fashion. Nevertheless, I would not suggest you work on each falseta until you get it down pat before moving on to the next one.

My suggestion would be to work on each falseta independently, but cover all of them at each practice session. Another thing I think helps is to play the entire "piece" at least once before ending your session. Thus, you practice each falseta independently followed by playing the complete piece, even if the falsetas are not completely refined to your liking. I think that pulling the various "modules" together as a "piece" at least once each practice session reminds "muscle memory" (not to mention your brain) of what the final goal is.

Just a suggestion that has helped me, for what it's worth (probably the price of a cup of non-Starbucks coffee and a croissant).

(Disclaimer: As much as I love flamenco, I am just a duffer when it comes to playing, and I take no responsibility for the results of following my suggestions.)

Bill



Paul Magnussen -> RE: Working on Son de Campanas (Dec. 30 2016 17:47:43)

The only thing in Lucía’s œuvre I always want to modify: I feel driven to stick a B7 (x24242) in between the transition from Bm to E7 near the beginning [:D]



JonathanPM -> RE: Working on Son de Campanas (Jul. 12 2017 3:05:34)

Im currently trying to learn this as well. But I have a (very very awful ) not so great sheet of it and would much rather as close to the source as possible. Anyone care to share the sheet? Or atleast tell me the book its in ;)



Ricardo -> RE: Working on Son de Campanas (Jul. 12 2017 15:02:06)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Paul Magnussen

The only thing in Lucía’s œuvre I always want to modify: I feel driven to stick a B7 (x24242) in between the transition from Bm to E7 near the beginning [:D]


And so began his foray into Jazz harmony opting for the Miles Davis inspired Dorian/mixolydian "cool blue" non resolution, over his grandfather's prefered predictable yet over used Ionian-happy V-I resolutions of old.... [:D]



Erik van Goch -> RE: Working on Son de Campanas (Jul. 12 2017 18:09:43)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dudno
Yep, makes sense Ramzi. [;)]


Very much sense indeed :-).

You already calculated "change your metronome" as one of the standard replies but in this case i would indeed urge you to find yourself a metronome that can give beats of various length so it can give you the actual 5 beat compas of seguiriyas (1 and, 2 and, 3 and a, 4 and a, 5 and). That really would give you a much better feeling of the second half of the compas then having this alternative beat. Try to play it a bit more playful rather then forced (not every note or beat needs an accent, in general head for beat 3 as the most important part of the compas, 4 and the 5 quite often function like 10 11 12 in soleares and in the same way you don't play 10 AND 11 AND 12 equally hard but just emphasis the 10 and the 12 do the same , gives you more time to relax as well. Personally i wouldn't use a metronome when studying this material yet. Your first aim is to pair the right thoughts to the right finger action and it is way more easy to mold it into a rhythm and a metronome once your mind and finger actions are spot on then to try to control under time pressure. As long as you are not in control, slow down and take all the time you need to do the moves and the preparation and relaxation of the hand and fingers correctly for each and every moment (not hindered by compas, metronomes or the other notes of the piece or the falseta yet).



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