RE: How can anyone not like rumba? (Full Version)

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Pimientito -> RE: How can anyone not like rumba? (May 16 2016 19:00:21)

I think I have accidentally offended you Ramzi...we were having a joke about bad rumbas
and I think you are defending rumba in Flamenco.....and actually I do know how to do a lot of percussive work.
The guitarist you showed us is a great example of a street rumba player and tablao player.
I cant copy that sound...why not? Its because you have to hammer out that rhythm for hours every day
above street noise and bar noise. My hands are not strong enough and my nails are too weak.
Also I would bet that he cannot play tremolo or fast arpeggio. I personally don't want to play that way.
I have met plenty of players who can produce a great rumba but they cant do any Flamenco palos.

Entre dos aguas (since you bought it up) was Pacos biggest selling single and also one of the best selling singles in Spanish history.
It has appeared on nearly every Paco compilation and flamenco compilation ever since so its no coincidence it was in every show.
However you wont see any of the Tablao players like the one you showed us tackling the picado in Entre dos Aguas because that is
a whole other way of playing the guitar.




Piwin -> RE: How can anyone not like rumba? (May 16 2016 19:04:51)

quote:

My rumbas leave my sound board looking like Swiss cheese.


Same problem here. I start out with the best of intentions, then without even noticing I end up in cheese territory. Though it'd have to be some kind of French cheese with holes in it. None of that stuff from across the border! [8D]




BarkellWH -> RE: How can anyone not like rumba? (May 16 2016 19:15:01)

quote:

This is extremely boring and supremely easy to accomplish. Just 3 minutes on the guitar, and you will get it sounding 100% like this. Yes? All I'm saying is don't use just one aspect of what rumba can be to bring down the entire genre.


You are missing the point of most of the comments on this thread, Ramzi. You certainly have failed to grasp my point. No one is saying that rumba cannot be played with intricate strumming and golpe/slapping technique. Speaking strictly for myself, the example you post of Sylvano playing rumba demonstrates fast, intricate strumming and golpe/slapping. He is very good, indeed.

But referencing the main point in my previously posted comment, it is a question of taste. I simply find rumba, even when played at a high level, to be nerve-wracking and boring after about two minutes. If I had to listen to it for five minutes I would be headed for the exit. It is simply not my cup of tea, regardless how much you try and convince us that we should like it because you like it and because it can be played well. We know you like it, and we know it can be played intricately and well. Those are not the determinants of taste, which is a much more individual quality than you seem to think.

Bill




norumba -> RE: How can anyone not like rumba? (May 16 2016 19:39:25)

quote:

Friends - it is always easier to poke fun at matters rather than to try and understand what they really are. I would like for any of you (that do not do guitar gigs for a living) to upload a video with a well-executed, complex rumba strumming pattern that is going at a fast tempo for 5 continuous minutes. If any of you can do so, then we'll resume the mockery on this thread. I think that if none of you can do so, then we ought to lock/delete this thread.

I'm saddened by the degree of cynicism that has come to engulf the majority of topics on the foro nowadays.


Dont conflate aesthetics with execution. i get that it takes a very specific right hand technique to do it well, and i have mad respect for those that do it well, of course; that doesn't mean i like the genre (same with most operas or most western classical music, for me: I appreciate the skill and talent, i aesthetically cant stand the form).

Doesn't mean rumba is bad or inferior or lacks merit or is inherently inauthentic, its just not for me.

And your green eggs and ham approach of ' try it, you'll like it' doesnt work for me. i can slog through a rumba if I have to, but i have no desire to perfect my rumba as i hate the form unconditionally and life is too long to spend hours doing something you dont like if you dont have to.

making me play it wont convert me and doesnt make it me like it any more than not playing it :)




Piwin -> RE: How can anyone not like rumba? (May 16 2016 19:48:30)

quote:

If I had to listen to it for five minutes I would be headed for the exit


Last time I was in Andalucia, I go the impression that the rumba buskers had cut their act quite a bit shorter than before. Even just five years ago, they'd at least stick around in the same general area for a few songs before passing a hat around and moving on. Now it seems they play just the one short version of a rumba, ask for money, move on to the next restaurant, repeat. So at least in that situation, you no longer really have to listen to rumba for more than 1 or 2 minutes [;)]




Dudnote -> RE: How can anyone not like rumba? (May 16 2016 20:10:50)

quote:

ORIGINAL:
i get that it takes a very specific right hand technique to do it well, and i have mad respect for those that do it well, of course...

Are we still talking about rumba [8D][8D][:D]




El Kiko -> RE: How can anyone not like rumba? (May 16 2016 20:43:29)

no my golpes happen on different parts of the guitar ..and i get and extra golpe with my thumb on the way up .....i do go from bridge to neck ...
its a bit like one of the good ol' juan martin systems ....





rombsix -> RE: How can anyone not like rumba? (May 16 2016 20:52:28)

Friends - I understand that there is bad taste when it comes to rumba, and I understand that preferences in music are subjective. I also know that some good rumberos cannot play other palos or other techniques well. That is not my issue here.

All I am saying is that this thread started out with a misleading statement (even if joking in parts) that looks like this:

"Rumba, rumba how do I hate thee, let me count the ways. Hahaha I don't hate ALL rumbas, I hate rumbas like that because;
1. It sounds like a sleezy night club where women have to keep an eye on their drinks.
2. It lacks a soul, it's whole existence is only for the purpose of helping morons procreate.
3. It reeks of men in suites who don't care about music getting rich off of music.
4. Commercialized objectification of women beyond the point that I'm comfortable with. (You said "how can YOU" me in this instance.)
5. Reinforces bad stereo types about Latin folk.
6. It's so cheesy I need to check my cholesterol after hearing it."

(I still love you, Lenny)

My problem with that statement is that it focuses on certain types of rumba, and it is quite subjective, yet it comes across as a legitimate generalization about the entire genre. If you were to expose someone who had never heard rumba to the more sophisticated, tasteful rumbas out there, then the outlook would be different.

I know that opinions vary, but the way this thread started only contributes to misrepresenting or overly emphasizing one perspective, and making the whole category of music sound like it's worthless, which is not the case. I get it that you are entitled to your opinions, and I like how the posts started to look after I chimed in twice. At that point, the input became balanced, and came across more as subjective, independent opinions, rather than stereotyping of an entire genre in an unrepresentative manner.

I am sure that there are people out there (rumberos or not) who might say the same thing about sevillanas, or colombianas, or verdiales, or jazz, or rock, or pop, etc.

I just don't see how the likes of this thread really contribute anything useful. I find that if we're going to express something like where the thread supposedly was going from the start, then let us do so more clearly and preface that this is just one viewpoint and is subjective/an opinion.

I didn't take offense as that makes no sense if someone simply has a different opinion than mine. It doesn't make sense though to just come in and place a genre in a silo and try to make it sound as though that is where it truly belongs, when in fact it's just one point of view.

PS: Yes - the golpes can be controlled to stay on the protective plates. Perhaps use larger tapping plates if this remains to be an issue?




Pimientito -> RE: How can anyone not like rumba? (May 16 2016 21:06:02)

quote:

we were having a joke


I am quite prepared to admit that there are excellent rumba players out there.
Why cant you admit there are bad rumbas out there...even subjectively?

I agree with all your points but you seem to have missed all of ours.
We were having a light hearted jab at bad rumbas. If you want bad bulerias I can assure you I can find hundreds.
I have nothing against rumba but I agree that some of it is bad and a lot of it is annoying.
I have to turn the radio in the car off to work sometimes after the 8th bad rumba on radio Chankete
[:D] Despite your opinion about raising public awareness to good rumbas, Pop radio plays a lot of cr@p




rombsix -> RE: How can anyone not like rumba? (May 16 2016 21:07:34)

quote:

I am quite prepared to admit that there are excellent rumba players out there.
Why cant you admit there are bad rumbas out there...even subjectively?

I agree with all your points but you seem to have missed all of ours.
We were having a light hearted jab at bad rumbas. If you want bad bulerias I can assure you I can find hundreds.
I have nothing against rumba but I agree that some of it is bad and a lot of it is annoying.
I have to turn the radio in the car off to work sometimes after the 8th bad rumba on radio Chankete


OK, man - that's fine. I get it. Let's move on...




Dudnote -> [Deleted] (May 16 2016 21:07:50)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at May 16 2016 21:09:14




Pimientito -> RE: How can anyone not like rumba? (May 16 2016 21:09:43)

I wish we had still off topic. I want to discuss how Australia nearly won Eurovision now




Piwin -> RE: How can anyone not like rumba? (May 16 2016 21:16:14)

Isn't it also possible that this is just what happens almost without fail when people don't share the same sense of humor and one party decides to analyze the other party's joke?

...




rombsix -> RE: How can anyone not like rumba? (May 16 2016 21:22:46)

quote:

Isn't it also possible that this is just what happens almost without fail when people don't share the same sense of humor and one party decides to analyze the other party's joke?

...


OK, man - that's fine. I get it. Let's move on...




Piwin -> RE: How can anyone not like rumba? (May 16 2016 21:28:27)

quote:

OK, man - that's fine. I get it. Let's move on...


Huh? Get what? It was a question... but sure I'm happy to move on.




BarkellWH -> RE: How can anyone not like rumba? (May 16 2016 21:34:30)

quote:

I know that opinions vary, but the way this thread started only contributes to misrepresenting or overly emphasizing one perspective, and making the whole category of music sound like it's worthless, which is not the case. I get it that you are entitled to your opinions,


I fail to see how anyone could confuse Lenny's initial contribution to this thread as anything but a humorous jab. I certainly could see nothing that indicated he was trying to categorically consign all rumba to the "silo" or trash heap. Moreover, If every contributor must preface his comment with, "It is my opinion....," or "In my opinion...," I find that silly and redundant. I think that when someone states a position on rumba or anything else, we can safely assume it is his subjective opinion. No one on the Foro that I am aware of claims omnipotence in categorically judging music, regardless of genre.

Bill




rombsix -> RE: How can anyone not like rumba? (May 16 2016 21:34:33)

quote:

Huh? Get what? It was a question... but sure I'm happy to move on.


I understood from your rhetorical question that you were saying that I don't have the same sense of humor as the rest of the folks that were enjoying this thread, and that I tried to analyze the joke thereby leading to these back-and-forths.

quote:

I fail to see how anyone could confuse Lenny's initial contribution to this thread as anything but a humorous jab. I certainly could see nothing that indicated he was trying to categorically consign all rumba to the "silo" or trash heap. Moreover, If every contributor must preface his comment with, "It is my opinion....," or "In my opinion...," I find that silly and redundant. I think that when someone states a position on rumba or anything else, we can safely assume it is his subjective opinion. No one on the Foro that I am aware of claims omnipotence in categorically judging music, regardless of genre.

Bill


OK, Bill. That's fine. I hear you.




Piwin -> RE: How can anyone not like rumba? (May 16 2016 21:46:01)

quote:

I understood from your rhetorical question that you were saying that I don't have the same sense of humor as the rest of the folks that were enjoying this thread, and that I tried to analyze the joke thereby leading to these back-and-forths.


Oh. We must've misunderstood each other. My question wasn't meant to be rhetorical at all. It's just that this kind of thing seems to happen quite often in social situations and this seemed to me to be one of those cases, hence the question. Anyways, I'm going to go waste some time looking up this Australia in Eurovision business. Got me curious! [:D]




Leñador -> RE: How can anyone not like rumba? (May 16 2016 23:07:59)

quote:

I still love you, Lenny

That's good, otherwise I was gunna have to return your Christmas present. [:D] lol

I really was indeed just playing around, I would think a room full of flamenco aficionados know there's great rumbas out there so I felt comfortable taking jabs at the bad stuff.
It's like when I'm with all my metal head friends make fun of A lot of things about the metal we listen to but if a non-metal head were to say the same thing I'd defend it to the death.
Or me and my friends tease each the about our short comings but if some stranger at a bar did it we'd have their head.
If a non-aficionado said "ugh, rumba is so lame and cheesy" I'd set them straight and say "you've never heard proper rumba then"




rombsix -> RE: How can anyone not like rumba? (May 17 2016 0:00:41)

quote:

If a non-aficionado said "ugh, rumba is so lame and cheesy" I'd set them straight and say "you've never heard proper rumba then"


Send them my way.




Ricardo -> RE: How can anyone not like rumba? (May 17 2016 12:37:33)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rombsix



This is extremely boring and supremely easy to accomplish. Just 3 minutes on the guitar, and you will get it sounding 100% like this. Yes?

All I'm saying is don't use just one aspect of what rumba can be to bring down the entire genre.

Is it a coincidence that Entre dos Aguas is Paco de Lucia's most famous material and probably the only one that he did in every single performance of his?

Go here and try to learn: https://www.youtube.com/user/lecatalan13/videos

Then come back and let me know...


Paco got away with not playing it dozens of times in concert when he toured with McLaughlin. I consider Most of what they did Rumba based compas wise however. Didn't feel like wasting much energy on an opinion in this thread, though I admit from the first video, I have always been in love with daisy duke denim shorts on girls so I watched the entire clip. [8D]

Here is something that is not an opinion, but a simple observation. I have known countless individual aficionado/players with same opinion as expressed by many of those in this topic. It's totally normal and not to get bent out of shape about, but what happens is after some brief proper exposure to performing with a serious RUMBA group of some sort the individuals invariably, (if not without some internal struggle), turn 180 degrees in Rumba directions themselves. It's sort of amusing that I have not seen any single player turn back like..."I still hate this boring shyte"....as would be implied by many opinions here. Not one so far.




Leñador -> RE: How can anyone not like rumba? (May 17 2016 13:18:01)

So your saying it's like baseball?? Boring to watch but a lot of fun to play....and even better drunk?? Lolol [:D]
I yoking I yoking......




Anders Eliasson -> RE: How can anyone not like rumba? (May 17 2016 15:04:02)

I have my ups and downs with rumbas

But my favorite all time Rumba is this one. (and i actually mean it, no joke, sarcasm etc.)





Anders Eliasson -> RE: How can anyone not like rumba? (May 17 2016 15:14:23)

And then I also have a soft for Chambao. Very polished etc, but I think La Mari sings great





rombsix -> RE: How can anyone not like rumba? (May 17 2016 15:32:54)

quote:

But my favorite all time Rumba is this one. (and i actually mean it, no joke, sarcasm etc.)


You know that Las Ketchup are Tomatito's daughters, right? Get it? Las Ketchup? El Tomate? OK, back to work I go. [:D]

http://us.hola.com/musica/2002102438894/musica/ketchup1/ketchup1/




Kiko_Roca -> RE: How can anyone not like rumba? (May 17 2016 15:54:27)

quote:


You know that Las Ketchup are Tomatito's daughters, right? Get it? Las Ketchup? El Tomate? OK, back to work I go. [:D]



Ketchup? Nah, Tomatito's daughter prefers salsa verde, verdad?

https://youtu.be/bSkGpSi8ohQ?t=42




Leñador -> RE: How can anyone not like rumba? (May 17 2016 16:06:12)

quote:

Ketchup? Nah, Tomatito's daughter prefers salsa verde, verdad?

Pica mucho por los Espanioles, prefieren mayonessa. [:D]




Anders Eliasson -> RE: How can anyone not like rumba? (May 17 2016 17:19:02)

So one of the things that this music forum needs is that the members play and not just talk/write


This theme is not really Rumba, but at the same time it is. A lot of especially pop rumbas play with the 3-3-2 rythm which is very eastern mediterranean.
The theme, i dont know what it is and where it is from, but 35 years ago I lived in a commune where there was a clarinet player playing it all the time, so one day a few years ago, I shaked my little head and out it came. Maybe ramzi El Rumbero knows it.
It can be arranged perfectly well with flamenco harmonics and rumba rythm and it will sound Rumba and not middle east ethnic. I have tried. Its cool if your are not one of these fiddle/violin haters.
(Or at least I had the guts to upload something instead of just talking [;)])




rombsix -> RE: How can anyone not like rumba? (May 17 2016 19:21:06)





Anders Eliasson -> RE: How can anyone not like rumba? (May 17 2016 19:37:47)

Olé mi arma.
That was a present surprise. Not often that one has the pleasure to be backed up by Ramzi el Rumbero.
Btw, I think you smiled more during this video han you normally do?
Btw, you did very well in making my small rythmical glitches seem almost not present. [:)]




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