Weight of soundboard flamenco guitar (Full Version)

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aqualibguitars -> Weight of soundboard flamenco guitar (Apr. 6 2016 18:45:53)

Hello friends

i have fully braced it and sanded to 2.1 mm
the weight is 174 grams.
is it proper weight or should i thin the braces little more and sand the soundboard?
may i know the weight of a finished soundboard of a flamenco guitar?
waiting for ur advice



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Weight of soundboard flamenco guitar (Apr. 6 2016 19:59:22)

It depends a little bit on the different soundboards.
I dont have any references of a finished soundboard ready for assembly, but I can tell you that my spruce soundboards, which has a 4mm margen around the final size, which is final thicknessed, has no rosette installed and no soundhole often weighs around 130 grams.



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aqualibguitars -> [Deleted] (Apr. 7 2016 5:34:47)

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aqualibguitars -> RE: Weight of soundboard flamenco guitar (Apr. 7 2016 5:49:57)

Thanks Mr.Anderson and Mr. Hibari for reply.
Mr.Anderson the weight of your soundboard is braced or without bracing?
im using engelman spruce and soundboard bracing is 7x 3.2mm on treble and 6x3 mm on bass side
i have attached the foto of my soundboard
.
should i reduce thickness of soundboad and braces?



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Weight of soundboard flamenco guitar (Apr. 7 2016 6:32:47)

quote:

I can tell you that my spruce soundboards, which has a 4mm margen around the final size, which is final thicknessed, has no rosette installed and no soundhole often weighs around 130 grams.


This is what i wrote. And it means its not braced. Its only final thicknessed.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Weight of soundboard flamenco guitar (Apr. 7 2016 6:37:42)

quote:

I also wouldn't suggest to judge the soundboard thickness or bracing mass after weight. You have to feel it :D but thats just my opinion


Since i dont know how many guitars you have built, could you please tell us what you base your statement on.



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estebanana -> RE: Weight of soundboard flamenco guitar (Apr. 7 2016 11:29:37)

Weigh it now, keep track of the records, build the guitar and see how it sounds. Then you have your first recorded data about your first guitar. Next one record the data and compare results.

Weight is not the only thing important.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Weight of soundboard flamenco guitar (Apr. 7 2016 12:41:31)

quote:

Weight is not the only thing important.


Exactly, but it is one of the factors in judging when a soundboard is where the builder wants it to be together with crossgrain stiffness, along grain stiffness , thickness and taptone. (and maybe some more)
Personally, my experience tells me that all of the factors are important. To this add that each soundboard material has its personal characteristics and should be treated according to those. And to that, that each piece of wood has its little things.
My experience tells me that Engelmann spruce is different from Alpine spruce, Sitka spruce and caucassian spruce and they are all different from cedar, which has its own little characteristics. I´ve built various guitars with each of these soundboard varieties.
I have no experience with Port Oxford Cedar, so i also have no opinions.[;)]



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aqualibguitars -> RE: Weight of soundboard flamenco guitar (Apr. 8 2016 5:54:47)

Thanks friends for ur replies
and yes mr.estabana i will record the details of this guitar and compare it with 2nd one.
really happy to get some good responses



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Weight of soundboard flamenco guitar (Apr. 8 2016 7:23:01)

quote:

I have never heard of weigh soundboards during my luthery studies, neither with oriental nor european stringed instruments.


It is absolutely normal when building violin/viola/cello.
Nothing new there. And please dont cut it down to being a recipe... ok, thats far out.. Its a tool to make guitars. Nothing else. Dont take things out of context.
The best tool of all is experience and that you get by using all possible factors and build as much as possible.

Wheather you will use other builders information or not is up to you. When i write what my soundboards weigh, its just a FREE information you may use as a reference. Take or leave it. And continue building and when you have some more experience, give back to the community by telling your experiences.



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Anders Eliasson -> RE: Weight of soundboard flamenco guitar (Apr. 9 2016 11:47:05)

quote:

I was just joking


Where was the joke. And no I dont know what a joke is.
[sm=rolleyes.gif]



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printer2 -> RE: Weight of soundboard flamenco guitar (Apr. 9 2016 19:35:27)

Well, with softwoods it is said stiffness tracks density with the denser wood having greater stiffness. But it is a linear function and a percentage increase in thickness should give an equal increase in stiffness. But stiffness is also a function of the moment of inertia. Basically with the moment of inertia the outer fibers carry more of the strain due to bending than the inner fibers.

The moment of inertia is a squared function (from what I can remember) and as long as the ultimate strength is not exceeded a less dense object with is thicker can be stiffer than a denser object that is thinner.

So what this means is a top that is less dense and a little thicker can be as stiff as a thinner more dense top. In the end the less dense top can end up lighter which means it will be louder and more responsive. So measuring the weight and thickness of the top can be useful to do a rough judgement of whether a top will be good for the type of guitar.

Hope I got that right.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Weight of soundboard flamenco guitar (Apr. 10 2016 7:07:49)

quote:

So what this means is a top that is less dense and a little thicker can be as stiff as a thinner more dense top. In the end the less dense top can end up lighter which means it will be louder and more responsive. So measuring the weight and thickness of the top can be useful to do a rough judgement of whether a top will be good for the type of guitar.

Hope I got that right.


Yes, I agree and thanks for comming back on topic.[;)]



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Weight of soundboard flamenco guitar (Apr. 10 2016 7:18:27)

quote:

Ohhh of course, it was hiding from you because it knew you wouldn't mind it !!


If you want to continue playing games with me, could you please do it in either my first or second language, which is Danish and Spanish respectively, so that that I would have a chance of following what you are up to. I´m getting tired of this and you have started behaving like a troll and editing your posts in order to be more funny doesnt help. On the contrary.
So far you have added little or nothing to the discussion in this thread except wanting to be very funny[8|] and tell me to calm down. [:'(] I´m actually calm enough to participate in this thread but not in the mood for being picked on, so get off my back and stay on topic please.



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Escribano -> RE: Weight of soundboard flamenco guitar (Apr. 10 2016 11:13:23)

quote:

Whats wrong with you Mr Eliasson ? Who do you think you are ?
I'm new to this forum but not new to internet and your behavior is pretty bad.


Cool it, Hibari. I don't understand your digs at Anders either. As far as I can tell, you haven't finished your first guitar yet, but claim a valid opinion on the subject and Anders questioned you out on it.

I don't see any 'joke' here and as an experienced Internet user you should understand how poorly attempts at humour can come across.

Back on-topic please.



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