RE: Tips on continuous rasgueado (Full Version)

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Piwin -> RE: Tips on continuous rasgueado (Mar. 8 2016 0:06:42)

quote:

Are you sure Pepe is not doing the up stroke with the index finger?


No it's m. Turns out I was wrong in my previous post: the i is an upstroke too.
Edit that: your previous screenshot explains much better than I ever could![8D]

Perhaps not the best example of his, but you can see it between 9:10 and 9:20:




rombsix -> RE: Tips on continuous rasgueado (Mar. 8 2016 0:14:09)

Yeah, by God - it seems Pepe Habichuela does indeed do it this way:

m-up, m-down, i-down, m-up, m-down, i-down, m-up, m-down, i-down

That's super awkward for me. I'm going to stick to the trusty:

a-down, i-down, i-up, a-down, i-down, i-up, a-down, i-down, i-up

[:D]



rombsix -> RE: Tips on continuous rasgueado (Mar. 8 2016 0:20:32)

quote:

Turns out I was wrong in my previous post: the i is an upstroke too.


No dude, it's like this: m-up, m-down, i-down. Look at 9:18 in the video and put the setting to 0.5 speed on YouTube. You were right the first time. [:D]

And to avoid confusion, an upstroke means from trebles to basses, and a downstroke means from basses to trebles. [8D]

No wonder his hand always looked so weird to me when he did it, and I would always marvel and say, "How the hell does his hand look this way if all he's doing is just m-down, i-down, i-up?" [:D]



Piwin -> RE: Tips on continuous rasgueado (Mar. 8 2016 0:38:01)

quote:

No dude, it's like this: m-up, m-down, i-down. Look at 9:18 in the video and put the setting to 0.5 speed on YouTube. You were right the first time. And to avoid confusion, an upstroke means from trebles to basses, and a downstroke means from basses to trebles.


Argh. I'm going back to playing the Beatles.[8D]
The most embarassing part about all of this is that I hadn't realized you could slow down YouTube videos!!! So much for busting my a** watching the same part over and over again at full speed to try to figure falsetas out...[:-] But now that I know, it's a whole new world out there for me![:)]



rombsix -> RE: Tips on continuous rasgueado (Mar. 8 2016 1:17:29)

quote:

The most embarassing part about all of this is that I hadn't realized you could slow down YouTube videos!!! So much for busting my a** watching the same part over and over again at full speed to try to figure falsetas out... But now that I know, it's a whole new world out there for me!


That's probably the most useful part of this thread from your standpoint. [:D]



Sr. Martins -> RE: Tips on continuous rasgueado (Mar. 8 2016 1:48:34)

You can also download the youtube videos and then use Reaper to loop parts of the video at any speed you want with much better soundquality. It has the elastique timestretch algo.



rob2966 -> RE: Tips on continuous rasgueado (Mar. 8 2016 3:16:23)

Thanks all for the responses, some great information provided, much appreciated. Up to this point, I have been linking the rasgueados together with an i (up) (eamiieamii...) and it seems that is a suitable alternative so I will probably continue to focus on improving the quality of that rasgueado (in addition to all the other things I'm working on. So many new techniques, loving it).

Later
Rob



Piwin -> RE: Tips on continuous rasgueado (Mar. 8 2016 3:28:56)

quote:

You can also download the youtube videos and then use Reaper to loop parts of the video at any speed you want with much better soundquality. It has the elastique timestretch algo.


Thanks for the tip! I'll check it out. I'm somewhat "electronically-challenged" as you can probably tell...[8D]



Piwin -> RE: Tips on continuous rasgueado (Mar. 8 2016 4:28:52)

Since we mentioned the upward index stroke being somewhat difficult to sound like the others, one way of practicing it is by playing sixteenth notes starting with an eamii but from then on looping an amii rasgueo. So eamii-amii-amii-etc. The i upward stroke will fall on the beat each time so if it needs accentuation it's a good way of doing it.
that eamii-amii-etc. is also nice if you want to add some syncopation after the rasgueo. There are many different ways to do this (and the eamii-amii-amii loop is just one of them) but the idea is usually to finish your rasgueo (whichever it is) with an upstroke so that your right hand is in position to play a powerful downstroke on the offbeat. (you can of course play the same syncopation even if your rasgueado finishes on the i downstroke, but it's one of those economy of movement things like not doubling fingers when playing picado)
To get an idea of the kind of effect I'm talking about, watch and listen to this. He does quite a few rasgueos finishing on an upward i and followed by syncopation. For instance at 00:52.




rombsix -> RE: Tips on continuous rasgueado (Mar. 8 2016 4:37:35)






Piwin -> RE: Tips on continuous rasgueado (Mar. 8 2016 4:45:09)

So much better than me trying to explain it with words![:D]
Thanks!



Guest -> [Deleted] (Mar. 8 2016 11:15:24)

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Cervantes -> RE: Tips on continuous rasgueado (Mar. 8 2016 16:29:51)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leñador

I dunno man, I wouldn't take flamenco lessons from Pepe Romero......


I actually found that Pepe Romero video pretty helpful after trying it last night.
The Romero's are considered royalty in the CG world. A friend I went to high school with here who has played guitar his whole life took lessons from him and also had a master class with Segovia and is now a top classical guitarist. I emailed him a few years ago about taking lessons and he never responded, I guess he is in such demand. I doubt Pepe teaches anymore but one of his sons probably does. I don't think i could afford whatever they charge if they would even take me. There is a lot to be learned from classical guitarists to improve technique, my teacher used the book "Pumping Nylon" a lot and it really helps.



Dudnote -> RE: Tips on continuous rasgueado (Mar. 9 2016 3:26:02)

quote:

ORIGINAL:
m-up, m-down, i-down, m-up, m-down, i-down, m-up, m-down, i-down

That's super awkward for me.

Try it for a bit, then switch to
a-up a-down m-down a-up a-down m-down
then switch back to the first pattern - it'll feel as smooth as silk in comparison [:D][:D][:D]



Piwin -> RE: Tips on continuous rasgueado (Mar. 9 2016 3:36:41)

quote:

since I am having a bit of a breakthrough


Cheers to that! I'm currently in one of those seemingly endless plateaus, just waiting for something to happen. Ugh..

I've been trying to do the eami a bit since this was posted. Sometimes I think it's harder to learn a technique that is slightly different from something you already know how to instead of just learning from scratch something completely different.
It reminds me of when I tried to learn the classical tremolo. Just wasn't working, couldn't get my i finger to not play that first note and let the a have a go at it! Though I should probably try practicing it again. There are some interesting variations with 6 or 9-note tremolos that make a whole lot more sense to play with ami instead of iami.



Leñador -> RE: Tips on continuous rasgueado (Mar. 9 2016 4:34:31)

quote:

I actually found that Pepe Romero video pretty helpful after trying it last night.
The Romero's are considered royalty in the CG world. A friend I went to high school with here who has played guitar his whole life took lessons from him and also had a master class with Segovia and is now a top classical guitarist. I emailed him a few years ago about taking lessons and he never responded, I guess he is in such demand. I doubt Pepe teaches anymore but one of his sons probably does. I don't think i could afford whatever they charge if they would even take me. There is a lot to be learned from classical guitarists to improve technique, my teacher used the book "Pumping Nylon" a lot and it really helps.

He's a very very good GUITARIST, incredibly good even and he knows some flamenco for aure but a flamenco he is not.
His feel of compas is borderline awkward.
http://youtu.be/8xOj11jCq60
There's actual flamenco players in San Diego that could give you more bang for your buck in lessons.



Cervantes -> RE: Tips on continuous rasgueado (Mar. 9 2016 4:50:56)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leñador

quote:

I actually found that Pepe Romero video pretty helpful after trying it last night.
The Romero's are considered royalty in the CG world. A friend I went to high school with here who has played guitar his whole life took lessons from him and also had a master class with Segovia and is now a top classical guitarist. I emailed him a few years ago about taking lessons and he never responded, I guess he is in such demand. I doubt Pepe teaches anymore but one of his sons probably does. I don't think i could afford whatever they charge if they would even take me. There is a lot to be learned from classical guitarists to improve technique, my teacher used the book "Pumping Nylon" a lot and it really helps.

He's a very very good GUITARIST, incredibly good even and he knows some flamenco for aure but a flamenco he is not.
His feel of compas is borderline awkward.
http://youtu.be/8xOj11jCq60
There's actual flamenco players in San Diego that could give you more bang for your buck in lessons.


I do already have a very good teacher, Scot Tabor. He is not exclusively flamenco but he does it very well.
I know there are other people here like John Moore but Scot works well for the level I am at right now.



Piwin -> RE: Tips on continuous rasgueado (Mar. 9 2016 5:10:05)

quote:

His feel of compas is borderline awkward. http://youtu.be/8xOj11jCq60


Thanks for showing me that bulerias could also be a palos libre lol. I never knew!



Ruphus -> RE: Tips on continuous rasgueado (Mar. 9 2016 9:55:18)

Yep. His flamenco venyl remained brand new in my collection.

He is a fantastic classical player, but despite of gitanos around his place in youth, flamenco isn´t his.

Ruphus



Dudnote -> RE: Tips on continuous rasgueado (Mar. 9 2016 10:05:47)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Piwin

quote:

since I am having a bit of a breakthrough


Cheers to that! I'm currently in one of those seemingly endless plateaus, just waiting for something to happen. Ugh..

I've been trying to do the eami a bit since this was posted. Sometimes I think it's harder to learn a technique that is slightly different from something you already know how to instead of just learning from scratch something completely different.
It reminds me of when I tried to learn the classical tremolo. Just wasn't working, couldn't get my i finger to not play that first note and let the a have a go at it! Though I should probably try practicing it again. There are some interesting variations with 6 or 9-note tremolos that make a whole lot more sense to play with ami instead of iami.

There was a thread here last year that looked at extended tremolos, think it was called Favorite Tremolo or something like that.

But it's all old hat. What your plateau needs is the a a m rasgueado [:D][:D]

Edit: found it, pretty cool thread, just lacked a pipa player
http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=275124&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=favourite%2Ctremolo&tmode=&smode=&s=#275154



Piwin -> RE: Tips on continuous rasgueado (Mar. 9 2016 10:13:34)

quote:

What your plateau needs is the a a m rasgueado


lol my hand is tensing up just thinking about it!!



Ricardo -> RE: Tips on continuous rasgueado (Mar. 9 2016 20:34:55)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rombsix

Wow - strange stuff. [:D] So THAT's how he does it. [8D]



0:26 here:




Might be safer to think of I/m working together on the up stroke.
I/m up
M down
I down,
I/m up,
M down,
I down...etc.

As the two retract together you can think of gripping at the strings with m more than i on the up stroke, that's all....let i miss the strings.

Really the same deal is happening with I up a down I down, (iai triplets) only as a and i retract together, only i is catching the strings.

AS per original topic, practice short bursts of rasgueado, fast and clean and punchy.

IEAMI.....taka taka tah! Rhythm... IEAMI...IEAMI...etc. try it as buleria closing stroke and other things in context of compas. Later at you two beat cycle....like 1,2,3 of Solea compas, but do it faster like buleria speed.

IEAM,IEAM,I...try to get a golpe in there, it's tough without up strokes at that speed but you can see it is doable. Nothing old school about it, you can even do the flicking at the basses thing (eye roll for those that think that is modern).

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px



rombsix -> RE: Tips on continuous rasgueado (Mar. 9 2016 22:12:12)

quote:

As the two retract together you can think of gripping at the strings with m more than i on the up stroke, that's all....let i miss the strings.


Yeah, I figured that would be the more anatomically sound way of doing it after I tried it for a bit. Didn't feel very awkward after doing so and practicing it for a bit.



Piwin -> RE: Tips on continuous rasgueado (Mar. 9 2016 22:25:28)

quote:

you can even do the flicking at the basses thing


What do you mean by "flicking at the basses"?



Leñador -> RE: Tips on continuous rasgueado (Mar. 10 2016 0:30:27)

quote:


IEAM,IEAM,I...try to get a golpe in there, it's tough without up strokes at that speed but you can see it is doable. Nothing old school about it, you can even do the flicking at the basses thing (eye roll for those that think that is modern).

Tocando bordones??? Sure, old as time.
My only point was you just don't see a ton of pinky eami rolling rasgueado nowadays so is it worth the effort to perfect. I feel like I learned it and now I never use it......



Ricardo -> RE: Tips on continuous rasgueado (Mar. 10 2016 2:16:11)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leñador

quote:


IEAM,IEAM,I...try to get a golpe in there, it's tough without up strokes at that speed but you can see it is doable. Nothing old school about it, you can even do the flicking at the basses thing (eye roll for those that think that is modern).

Tocando bordones??? Sure, old as time.
My only point was you just don't see a ton of pinky eami rolling rasgueado nowadays so is it worth the effort to perfect. I feel like I learned it and now I never use it......



Here's a hint.

It's 2016.

USE IT. If you can't find a use for it? You suck. (Just kidding but you get my point.)



Leñador -> RE: Tips on continuous rasgueado (Mar. 10 2016 2:47:54)

I working on it maestro [:D]



Dudnote -> RE: Tips on continuous rasgueado (Mar. 10 2016 2:59:33)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leñador

quote:


IEAM,IEAM,I...try to get a golpe in there, it's tough without up strokes at that speed but you can see it is doable. Nothing old school about it, you can even do the flicking at the basses thing (eye roll for those that think that is modern).

Tocando bordones??? Sure, old as time.
My only point was you just don't see a ton of pinky eami rolling rasgueado nowadays so is it worth the effort to perfect. I feel like I learned it and now I never use it......



Here's a hint.

It's 2016.

USE IT. If you can't find a use for it? You suck. (Just kidding but you get my point.)

Na, it's old hat mate. Everyones doing e-e-a these days [:D]



Piwin -> RE: Tips on continuous rasgueado (Mar. 10 2016 3:01:57)

quote:

Na, it's old hat mate. Everyones doing e-e-a these days


Hahaha brilliant! I still think someone should give the Jimi Hendrix a-m-i-tooth rasgueado a try.



Piwin -> RE: Tips on continuous rasgueado (Mar. 10 2016 3:06:50)

Or if you're in to open tunings, tune the guitar to an open E, put your left hand over the neck and next to your right hand and then try the eami(right hand)imaee(left hand, upstroke with e) loop. [8D]

Obviously though, the future is here: (skip to 2:55)


Just genetically engineer the next Pdl to have 19 fingers on each hand and then see what happens [8D]



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