Paco Zyryab book? (Full Version)

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Ricardo -> Paco Zyryab book? (Feb. 13 2016 19:27:44)

I swear on my eyes I came across at least a picture of this full score book. Siroco already came out in December 2014, by David Leiva. It has a blue edging. The Zyryab book I saw was same design with purple edge. I know I am not crazy, but anybody have info? Searches turn up nothing.



Piwin -> RE: Paco Zyryab book? (Feb. 14 2016 13:45:32)

I don't know whether the Zyryab book is out or not, but your post was contagious. I just spent 30min looking for it I wanted it so bad to be true![:)]
All I could find was an interview of David Leiva from last summer where he says he's working on it...



Paul Magnussen -> RE: Paco Zyryab book? (Feb. 14 2016 15:07:43)

quote:

Siroco already came out in December 2014, by David Leiva.


I’m glad the books are finally being done by someone competent; his book/video combinations of the Sabicas & Escudero duets are amazing.



brad -> RE: Paco Zyryab book? (Feb. 14 2016 16:58:54)

http://www.davidleiva.net/libros/



beno -> RE: Paco Zyryab book? (Feb. 14 2016 17:00:40)

I really cannot emphasize enough the work of our very own foro-member, Richard (xirdneH_imiJ ). He won 2 challenges here so far, and his transcriptions are accurate, well edited. He IS competent. Yet the foro members seems not to notice him....

Except for the taranta, he has all the tracks of the album.

http://tabsflamenco.com



Ricardo -> RE: Paco Zyryab book? (Feb. 14 2016 20:06:37)

It was Facebook



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Guest -> [Deleted] (Feb. 15 2016 12:55:49)

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Ricardo -> RE: Paco Zyryab book? (Feb. 15 2016 18:17:57)

quote:

ORIGINAL: beno

I really cannot emphasize enough the work of our very own foro-member, Richard (xirdneH_imiJ ). He won 2 challenges here so far, and his transcriptions are accurate, well edited. He IS competent. Yet the foro members seems not to notice him....

Except for the taranta, he has all the tracks of the album.

http://tabsflamenco.com



Of course he does EXCELLENT work. No doubt about it. Perhaps he could transcribe MY PLAYING EVEN better than I did a few years ago, in order to sell them on my site.

I don't want to downplay the skill and importance of that in anyway, but I have thoughts about it. I too have been commissioned by students and friends to transcribe things, and gotten paid for my work, knowing full well the implications. First of all, let me admit I am a fan of big coffee table books, and really for no other purpose than my music library I have been waiting for this volume since Fabulosa came out. To remind everyone of why that first volume appeared (admitting that it is NOT well done at the same time), was in order to SECURE (C) ROYALTIES for PDL and family, as it finally had become apparent the torregrossa penned scores were NOT for guitar players, and the good scores done by Faucher (in particular) were sold UNDER THE TABLE, in an unofficial manner. In the old age perhaps someone finally took note of music world making some small $ off of the maestro's name and thought, probably via close Spanish friends (same transcriber did this for Nuñez, with all the best intentions for the composer), and simply wanted to put a stop to it. Faucher attempted to make official volumes for certain artists, giving meager royalties to the living artists. Obviously, not knowing how publishing works, flamencos putting trust in CLOSE friends instead, basically called out Faucher and forced him to pull down certain things from his site.

So, it appears that Richard's site is functioning not unlike Faucher, in the sense these are most likely UNDER THE TABLE scores FOR SALE. As good as they may be, is he sending his royalties to the owners of the (p), and in cases where (c) exists already, acquiring proper rights permission agreements, signed and dated, in advance of putting pen to paper? Probably not, but I don't know.

At the end of the day I may very well invest in under the table scores, for sake of learning the CORRECT VERSION, as a student. I may very well do that some day, although I am quite compentant at MAKING MY OWN TRANSCRIPTIONS! [:D]. But, it will remain till I die that I just love my coffee table books.

Anyway back on topic, please if anybody hears about this Zyryab book coming up for sale, please let me know, it will be my late B-day present. [;)]

Cheers, peace, happy transcribing!



Paul Magnussen -> RE: Paco Zyryab book? (Feb. 15 2016 22:57:07)

Legally, the copyright-holders may be entitled to both the © royalties and the ℗ royalties.

But morally, if they knowingly and deliberately publish inaccurate transcriptions, while someone else produces accurate ones, then I say Good Luck to the latter.



Ricardo -> RE: Paco Zyryab book? (Feb. 15 2016 23:03:50)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Paul Magnussen

Legally, the copyright-holders may be entitled to both the © royalties and the ℗ royalties.

But morally, if they knowingly and deliberately publish inaccurate transcriptions, while someone else produces accurate ones, then I say Good Luck to the latter.


Of course, but publishing companies think of music in a general way. To Polygram, the piano made scores ARE accurate. Only guitar nerds understand the concept. I learned a couple fastestas and arranged them more "correctly" for myself, from those deplorable scores of early PDL. I knew pop music had done the same things with guitar oriented groups such as Van Halen when I was a kid, so it was not a surprise to me in anyway. Morals are not the issue, it's about securing artist rights and setting up a way for the machine to keep making money and not get ripped off.



Dudnote -> RE: Paco Zyryab book? (Feb. 16 2016 3:29:35)

quote:

ORIGINAL: beno
Yet the foro members seems not to notice him....

It was hard not to notice how the last challenge was nothing short of a one horse race [:D]

I'd seen that site a few times but never made the link to Richard. Could be time I send him an PM. Thanks for pointing out the connection.



TGerman -> RE: Paco Zyryab book? (Feb. 25 2016 9:57:43)

Ricardo,

Here it is Paco Zyryab Book by David Leiva Now, after you get it, you have to post some videos of you playing [;)]



machopicasso -> RE: Paco Zyryab book? (Feb. 26 2016 10:19:56)

quote:

As good as they may be, is he sending his royalties to the owners of the (p), and in cases where (c) exists already, acquiring proper rights permission agreements, signed and dated, in advance of putting pen to paper? Probably not, but I don't know.


If the artist has not claimed copyright on transcriptions of his music, then I don't see why other transcribers have any obligation to pay the artist royalties.

If you perform your music not only in concerts but also on YouTube videos promoting other peoples' guitars, then, in effect, you're licensing other people to learn how to play your music. Those who produce transcriptions are seizing and developing that opportunity in a particular way. I don't see a substantive difference between that and a guitar teacher who teaches a student how to play the piece within the context of a private lesson.



xirdneH_imiJ -> RE: Paco Zyryab book? (Feb. 26 2016 16:43:28)

I've been reluctant to comment so far, but just one thing. If they heard what they'd earn by me selling one month's worth of transcriptions of their music, they'd die laughing.
I have no clue what's the case with books (well marketed, etc), but with what I sell, counting the last four or five years, they'd have earned a fraction of what they make in a concert.
I understand Ricardo's reasoning fully, but you have to consider what Alain Faucher's transcriptions have done for the whole of the flamenco guitar community. Some day maybe my contributions will be considered equally as valuable. Trust me, there is no way one can earn a living with this.



Ricardo -> RE: Paco Zyryab book? (Mar. 3 2016 20:26:27)

quote:

ORIGINAL: machopicasso

quote:

As good as they may be, is he sending his royalties to the owners of the (p), and in cases where (c) exists already, acquiring proper rights permission agreements, signed and dated, in advance of putting pen to paper? Probably not, but I don't know.


If the artist has not claimed copyright on transcriptions of his music, then I don't see why other transcribers have any obligation to pay the artist royalties.

If you perform your music not only in concerts but also on YouTube videos promoting other peoples' guitars, then, in effect, you're licensing other people to learn how to play your music. Those who produce transcriptions are seizing and developing that opportunity in a particular way. I don't see a substantive difference between that and a guitar teacher who teaches a student how to play the piece within the context of a private lesson.


Any artist that records or writes original music and puts it out there is "claiming copyright". Sound recordings are secured with "(p), and written on paper music with (c). Doesn't matter which you have, neither one lets somebody transcribe or arrange the artisti's owned work without permission. Well, honestly, in most pro cases it is the publisher that owns the rights. Publisher makes a deal with artists to handle all the mess. Sometimes an artist gets ownership of his own stuff. A transcription or an arrangement or a public performance requires a license (permission) and royalties to be paid (compensation in pennies [:D]). It used to be a desirable thing to put your music out there so others make arrangements, buy scores, or simply record a cover version so artists could secure royalties. That was before YouTube streaming etc etc. Even in the context of the old days, there is a clause where transcriptions and excerpts are allowed for EDUCATIONAL purposes. In flamenco context that means falseta collections for a student would not require permission. But full album transcriptions for public use is a different story.

Hope that clears up what I was saying earlier.



machopicasso -> RE: Paco Zyryab book? (Mar. 4 2016 10:29:33)

quote:

Even in the context of the old days, there is a clause where transcriptions and excerpts are allowed for EDUCATIONAL purposes. In flamenco context that means falseta collections for a student would not require permission. But full album transcriptions for public use is a different story.


Is the clause about educational use still common? If so, then what educational use would a tab transcription serve other than allowing guitarists to study the work of a master? If that's the principal educational use, then it looks like under the table transcriptions would be problematic only if the transcriber were deriving a significant profit from them.



Ricardo -> RE: Paco Zyryab book? (Mar. 4 2016 13:55:41)

quote:

ORIGINAL: machopicasso

quote:

Even in the context of the old days, there is a clause where transcriptions and excerpts are allowed for EDUCATIONAL purposes. In flamenco context that means falseta collections for a student would not require permission. But full album transcriptions for public use is a different story.


Is the clause about educational use still common? If so, then what educational use would a tab transcription serve other than allowing guitarists to study the work of a master? If that's the principal educational use, then it looks like under the table transcriptions would be problematic only if the transcriber were deriving a significant profit from them.


It's called "fair use". Technically falsetas would come under that but a full piece would not. You are correct that if you make money teaching a full composition to a student to perform at a recital say, yes that would be totally under the table thing. But it has always been understood amongst private teachers this is under the table deal. Even with classical music where a book is used that is a (c) arrangement by someone. Remember When Segovia got super psyco pissed at some student for using a Japanese book of HIS arrangement? (Maybe you didn't hear the story but he kicked the student out of the master class cuz Japanese were NOT playing by the (c) rules in anyway back then). But to simply WRITE DOWN on paper, any published piece you hear on a radio or whatever, is simply illegal, without license.

But back to the student recital example, the idea is that university or whatever venue is putting this on, including the teachers etc etc, they are all covered buy a blanket license that allows for performing, teaching, (c) or (p) works etc. It is up to the performing rights organization (ASCAP BMI etc) to keep up with collecting the dues from the venue. While we are talking about pennies for artists, the idea holds that what is published IS protected, and anything else slides under the table. Where you get into "is it worth it" is when you deal with law suits. Same as for any parking ticket you want to contest, it has to be worth your while to care. The real idea behind it all is protect some unknown composer from getting ripped off by Elton John or whoever by performing their composition and racking in the $ without paying some small royalty...it becomes worth it to be protected JUST IN CASE you make a hit that everyone wants to record.



Ricardo -> RE: Paco Zyryab book? (Mar. 9 2016 20:11:18)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

It was Facebook




Back on topic, got it in the mail today, nice volume. As with the others there are some errors of fingering, but overall it's great book to have in collection... I feeling like Fantasia/Fuente y Caudal are the Old Testament and this one is the New Testament. [;)]

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machopicasso -> RE: Paco Zyryab book? (Mar. 13 2016 9:12:02)

quote:

Back on topic, got it in the mail today, nice volume.


Cool. Post a video once you've learned some of it.



Ricardo -> RE: Paco Zyryab book? (Mar. 13 2016 15:21:17)

quote:

ORIGINAL: machopicasso

quote:

Back on topic, got it in the mail today, nice volume.


Cool. Post a video once you've learned some of it.


Ok, got my favorite buleria falseta down already, I'll post a vid.

Ricardo



Ricardo -> RE: Paco Zyryab book? (Mar. 13 2016 16:10:57)

Ok here is the falseta from soniquete page 23 (23 song, p35 book). As usual tons of distractions practicing at home! [:D]




Piwin -> RE: Paco Zyryab book? (Mar. 14 2016 9:50:38)

[:D]

Now that's professional concentration! If you can take a balloon attack, you can take pretty much anything. Probably even the infamous cat Attack:




Ricardo -> RE: Paco Zyryab book? (Mar. 14 2016 15:20:08)

Guitar playing is certainly a pussey magnet.



Piwin -> RE: Paco Zyryab book? (Mar. 14 2016 15:38:32)

Ba dum ts [:D]
I must be doing something wrong then. My cat runs to the other room as soon as I take my guitar out. And my girlfriend just leaves the appartment... Last week I was working through the difficult parts of a particular piece I'm working on. I'd been at it for maybe 2 hours. She walks in and says. "Keep on playing, but for f**'s sake, play something else!"
[:D]



Piwin -> RE: Paco Zyryab book? (Mar. 14 2016 15:46:49)

http://images.google.fr/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.generadormemes.com%2Fdownload%2F4w0n7y&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.generadormemes.com%2Fmeme%2F4w0n7y&h=420&w=600&tbnid=nLh-D1CkmBIrAM%3A&docid=ftzGwiSinnADzM&ei=u-rmVvLsB4rjUafSr9AD&tbm=isch&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=9&page=1&start=0&ndsp=25&ved=0ahUKEwiytteZ0MDLAhWKcRQKHSfpCzoQrQMIHjAA



johnnefastis -> RE: Paco Zyryab book? (Mar. 21 2016 15:37:53)

Ole ! Great playing Ricardo...

I was pretty excited about this book. I have to admit I would struggle with most of it but I was disappointed to see that the arpeggio from the title track is pretty badly transcribed. Not only is the fingering wrong but he missed the bass note that forms the loom. Just seems a bit sloppy seeing this is meant to be the definitive score. Surely he had a slowdowner app and youtube.

How is the rest of it standing up Ricardo ? This kind of puts me off.

Cheers



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Ricardo -> RE: Paco Zyryab book? (Mar. 26 2016 22:56:13)

I have never really seen a "perfect" transcription before. Even my own of my own pieces people have pointed out small errors like those you are noticing. I have noticed a ton in this so far, but honestly it's better than the first two volumes. Even Cañizares' work has some errors of fingering, and he PLAYED with Paco! [:D]



Filip -> RE: Paco Zyryab book? (Apr. 11 2016 15:49:29)

Hi all,

I was wandering around Madrid on Saturday, it was a lovely spring sunny day, looking for some guitars and I run on Zyryab book in one of the stores. I was a bit excited seeing it so I bought it! Honestly, I don't think I am up to most of the pieces, maybe only to some falsetas to satisfy my personal desire, so it's a bit crazy but I said what the heck [:D] (there was also the Siroco book but it would be too much [:)] )

I see there was a discussion here about errors in the book. Honestly, I don't care much about errors in fingering as I care about correction of notes (for example the one that johnnefastis gave) and rythm. I have also seen some differences in this book and the transcription of Soniquete that I have from a guy that was on Paco's forum, so I guess I'm gonna have to slow down some falsetas to really see what's going on. Sure as Ricardo said there will be errors, I just hope there is not much [:D]

Cheers



joevidetto -> RE: Paco Zyryab book? (Feb. 10 2021 17:51:10)

quote:

the transcription of Soniquete that I have from a guy that was on Paco's forum


Filip - by any chance do you have a link to the one you refer to seeing on Paco's forum ?
Also - I have no idea what Paco's forum is - is it a good place to learn ? Does it hold a candle to Foro ? (that would be surprising and amazing).



Ricardo -> RE: Paco Zyryab book? (Feb. 11 2021 1:33:34)

It might be the same one I have printed out by “Miguel A. Leiva”. Wonder if he is related? It was pretty much similar to the book version but no compas, only tab numbers.



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