Next Step Up? (Full Version)

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drhildr -> Next Step Up? (Feb. 5 2016 8:58:08)

Currently have a Sanchis Lopes 2F which I started my flamenco life with. Fancy treating myself to a new guitar (because I am worth it! [:D]) but wouldn't mind some thoughts on the best buy at around the Euro2000 mark?



Stephen Eden -> RE: Next Step Up? (Feb. 5 2016 9:33:29)

Those 2f's are pretty good actually and probably just as good as the top Sanchis.

I would think the next logical step would be hand made. Although there probably isn't much in your budget. A quick check in the classifieds shows a few makers has guitars up there. Anders has a sale on at the moment with his 1A down at 2400 Euro! so a little above your budget but a bargain at 20% off at the moment. Andy Culpepper on this forum has a 2A for sale at $2800. I think import duty might kill that one off though. I also produce a low cost model at £1500. You can see the build here http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=282515&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1

Other than those all I can think of are other factory guitars that most likely won't be any better in sound or quality.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Next Step Up? (Feb. 5 2016 9:47:39)

agree. and will only add that i sometimes build a 2A guitar for 2000,-€
I might have one finished within so long.



edguerin -> RE: Next Step Up? (Feb. 5 2016 16:21:44)

In the "courses" thread you mention you want to get your mojo back [;)]
That's just what my Anders guitar did for me!

If you actually do go to Sevilla, maybe visiting Anders' shop would be feasible.
Or look around in Sevilla ..



edguerin -> RE: Next Step Up? (Feb. 7 2016 16:59:06)

Antonio Bernal
C/ HERNANDO DEL PULGAR, 20 / 41007 / SEVILLA / ESPAÑA
T. (+34) 954 580 838 / M. (+34) 630 444 905

is well worth a visit.



Cervantes -> RE: Next Step Up? (Feb. 7 2016 18:20:16)

There is a Vicente Carrillo in the classifieds for 1900 Euro.
I played one of these and it was awesome, that is a great price unless I am missing something.
It is in London, I think you are in the UK?



jimand -> RE: Next Step Up? (Feb. 7 2016 19:47:39)

+1 on Antonio Bernal's shop. Was there in December.

- jim



DavRom -> RE: Next Step Up? (Feb. 8 2016 6:11:43)

+1 on an Anders Eliasson

i just bought one. very well built, beautiful sound that's very flamenco and a good price for such quality



RobJe -> RE: Next Step Up? (Feb. 8 2016 11:03:21)

quote:

Fancy treating myself to a new guitar


Euro2000 is a good budget.

"Treating" means pleasure but where will your pleasure come from?

Will it be factory - affordable (sometimes), shiny, flawless, robust, easy to buy- or single luthier?

True pleasure comes when you find someone who has managed to coax a piece of spruce (or whatever) to send the proper flamenco messages through strings and fingers to your brain, helping you to become a better player.

Over the years I have found guitars that do this - but not without a few mistakes. I now have a good idea where to look. If you browse this forum you will find some good advice.

Rob



Dudnote -> RE: Next Step Up? (Feb. 9 2016 4:12:19)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavRom

+1 on an Anders Eliasson

i just bought one. very well built, beautiful sound that's very flamenco and a good price for such quality

Yeah man! You finally bit the bullet and got an Anders Eliasson! I'm jealous [;)] Which one did you get DavRom? Hope we get to hear it on these pages.



drhildr -> RE: Next Step Up? (Feb. 9 2016 12:38:37)

Thanks everyone - as has been pointed out, my motives are perhaps quite odd as I am potentially using the emotional act of spending hard earned money on a new guitar as a lever to incite me into getting back in the saddle in a meaningful way. A bit like buying a sports car to get the joy of driving in the open countryside on sunny Sunday morning!



edguerin -> RE: Next Step Up? (Feb. 9 2016 16:42:27)

quote:

spending hard earned money on a new guitar as a lever to incite me into getting back in the saddle

It works though [:)]



drhildr -> RE: Next Step Up? (Feb. 10 2016 15:59:01)

I am telling my wife you said that - should get me the "all clear" to get buying [sm=lol.gif]



edguerin -> RE: Next Step Up? (Feb. 10 2016 17:28:39)

[:D]
I convinced my wife a € 3000.- Eliasson blanca, made to order would be much better than a "run of the mill" Hermanos Conde for (at the time) € 12.500.



DavRom -> RE: Next Step Up? (Feb. 10 2016 22:21:16)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dudnote

Yeah man! You finally bit the bullet and got an Anders Eliasson! I'm jealous [;)] Which one did you get DavRom? Hope we get to hear it on these pages.


#122 is now mi blanquita. modern pegheads work beautifully (i never imagined)

i really liked the sound just from Ander's YouTube quality video and now actually in my hands i love it. it was a crazy risk my wife questioned (sight unseen/unplayed), but i'm very pleased indeed. If commissioned, I would have liked the fret board a little more tapered at the edges, but that's purely personal and it's still very playable for me as is

don't be jealous [;)] i also liked the sound of the negra you bought, not all that different

sooner or later i'll post something



Piwin -> RE: Next Step Up? (Feb. 11 2016 0:01:04)

It does work! I bought new running shoes the other day and lo and behold I actually went for a jog for once in my life!
I can't really give any advice on this but i'd say that if I were in that price range, I'd stay clear of factory-made guitars and go for a used single made guitar.
Years ago I bought a used Hermanos Borja somewhere around that price range. By luthier standards I'm not sure it's such a good guitar (it's not all that sturdy, like some Conde guitars),
but for whatever reason it just clicked when I played it. When everything is said and done, that was more important to me than the "objective" quality of the guitar.
I'd definitely take experienced people's advice, but don't forget your gut feeling. You'll be happier with a guitar that everyone else thinks is crap but that works for you than with a guitar
that everyone thinks is great but just isn't working for you.



drhildr -> RE: Next Step Up? (Feb. 11 2016 7:39:49)

edguerin - I need to take some lessons from you as it sounds like you are the master of the wife persuasion art! [sm=WS_FTP.LOG][sm=Smiley Guitar.gif]



Dudnote -> RE: Next Step Up? (Feb. 11 2016 23:57:47)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavRom
don't be jealous [;)] i also liked the sound of the negra you bought, not all that different

Ha ha! Only kidding. I so very nearly bought 122 myself, but fancied a negra since I already have a blanca. You got yourself a great guitar - the sister of mine - we should get them together someday for a juerga [:D]

quote:


sooner or later i'll post something

Great, look forward to it.

quote:


I convinced my wife a € 3000.- Eliasson blanca, made to order would be much better than a "run of the mill" Hermanos Conde for (at the time) € 12.500.

That's pure genius!!!



drhildr -> RE: Next Step Up? (Feb. 12 2016 7:28:03)

That went well - pitched the new spend level to Mrs D and she merely commented "well, if it will improve your playing....." I don't think it was a compliment to be fair!



DavRom -> RE: Next Step Up? (Feb. 12 2016 11:07:45)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dudnote

Ha ha! Only kidding.



yeah, i know, that's why i added my own wink

a la juerga...



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Next Step Up? (Feb. 12 2016 12:03:53)

Hi Davrom.
Thanks for your kind words about the guitar. Its highly appreciated.

The quote of yours below I dont really understand. Could you explain what it means? I´m curious. I dont know what a fingerboard tapered at the edges is. Is it towards the top of the fretboard, where the frets are or is it towards the bottom, where its glued to the neck?

quote:

I would have liked the fret board a little more tapered at the edges, but that's purely personal and it's still very playable for me as is



DavRom -> RE: Next Step Up? (Feb. 12 2016 12:57:15)

Hey Anders
I see now that it's not so easy to understand (or explain)

Another way to say it is, more rounded along the top edge (6th string) and bottom edge (1st string) of the fingerboard. I guess it can be subtle but i feel it immediately on any guitar i play

it's like the edges are a little too sharp. something easily remedied to the players taste with a bit of sanding. i'm probably too fussy since it's very tactile to me.

to be sure, i'm enjoying this guitar every day for hours. the tone is terrific!



DavRom -> RE: Next Step Up? (Feb. 12 2016 13:28:03)

here's an image i found that should explain it




Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px



Sr. Martins -> RE: Next Step Up? (Feb. 12 2016 13:32:45)

I think you mean slightly radiused fretboard and/or frets. That's a common thing that makes a big difference in confort of the left hand and ease of barring.



Sr. Martins -> RE: Next Step Up? (Feb. 12 2016 13:36:27)

Given the picture, I doubt that the edge is what makes a difference. Rounded fret ends make a huge difference, fretboard edge alone... not so much.



DavRom -> RE: Next Step Up? (Feb. 12 2016 13:59:16)

judging from what you say Sr. Martins you either don't understand or feel what i am referring to. it's not about the fret wires

and it might help barring, but that's not my concern



jshelton5040 -> RE: Next Step Up? (Feb. 12 2016 14:31:10)

Putting a bevel (taper) on the edge of the fingerboard is a common practice. We've been doing it for many years. It makes the neck more comfortable. I do it on the jointer by tipping the fence a couple of degrees when jointing the edges straight. It makes the fingerboard slightly wider at the bottom.



Sr. Martins -> RE: Next Step Up? (Feb. 12 2016 14:37:39)

quote:

judging from what you say Sr. Martins you either don't understand or feel what i am referring to. it's not about the fret wires


My first reply was written before you posted the picture.

About the rolled edges I know what I am saying. You might think that the rolled wood is what makes a big difference in feel but having rolled fret ends is what does it. Besides, if you roll the fretboard edges and keep the fret ends as they are, the guitar might end up feeling like crap.



Ruphus -> RE: Next Step Up? (Feb. 12 2016 18:05:52)

Naturally, when you smooth the edges the frets end should correspond as well.

I understand well what DavRom is about; and I had my own pointers to effects of well shaped edges (not just with guitar design) on the foro before.

Well figured edge shaping matters way more in design than many may realize.
In fact it quite effects the overal perception of a work piece. Visually as well as even more tactile. It even effects subjective perception of solidity to no small degree.

Ruphus



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Next Step Up? (Feb. 12 2016 18:37:14)

Thanks, Davrom. I understand now.
Good news are that it can very easily be done either by yourself or someone else. IMO, its not even nesesary to do anything to the finish. You wont feel or see its not there if you finish off with a very fine grit sandpaper or 0000 steelwool and a drop of oil.

And no, it doesnt have to be some kind of fancy oil. It can be the grease you have behing your ears.[8D][sm=Smiley Guitar.gif][:D]



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