what makes a guitar so great?

what makes a guitar so great? (Full Version)

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mmenk -> what makes a guitar so great? (Jan. 25 2016 2:32:06)
Is a great guitar made, or is it discovered by a musician? The great sounds that we hear coming off of stage, recording and at our tables. Think about what you feel and what it means. I believe that there are magicians at work.

Ruphus -> RE: what makes a guitar so great? (Jan. 25 2016 7:10:17)
I´ll bite. A good touch will let any guitar sound better. Yet, there can´t be discovered what´s not in there to start with. From there, I think the magic is in the instrument in the first place. How strings will drive the top and at best let the whole instrument vibrate; how the axe feels (neck round, edges, fret ends) and weighs (don´t like guitars with overweight in the neck); pulsation and setup; and not at last main air, respectively more important even how fundamental and partials align. Good intonation and well functioning tuners (no blocked rollers at the very least) being nobrainer. A magic guitar is one that appears as if singing all by itself. You strike a chord and hear an orchestra, and when you switch chords things blend so well. Naturally, precision tuning will help the latter substantially (objections not tolerated, hehe), but the more harmonic the structure responds the better anyway. Ruphus

DaveyS -> RE: what makes a guitar so great? (Jan. 25 2016 10:15:14)
I would agree that a great instrument inspires great playing and there is a richness of tone that only fine instruments can produce. Of more importance is the wonderful feeling of a well built guitar vibrating when one plays. It is very addictive and cheap guitars cannot compete. That isn't to say that great music can't be made on cheap instruments because it certainly can (witness the student Ramirez used by the beatles on 'and I love her' and 'till there was you' as a single famous example). However for me there is no comparison. A great guitar encourages you to play because it is so damn satisfying sonically and physically.

BarkellWH -> RE: what makes a guitar so great? (Jan. 25 2016 12:32:53)
quote: Is a great guitar made, or is it discovered by a musician? The two possibilities you put forth above are not necessarily mutually exclusive. A great guitar can be made, and then be discovered and appreciated by a musician. Nevertheless, I think I know what you are driving at. A great guitar is made. It may be played by a musician who has the ability to bring out its finest qualities, or it may be played by a mediocre player who is not up to the level of the guitar. In either case, the brilliant qualities are inherent in the guitar; they are not dependent upon the level of ability of the guitarist. That some guitarists may bring out those brilliant qualities better than others says everything about the guitarist's ability, not the inherent brilliance of the guitar. Bill

julianev -> RE: what makes a guitar so great? (Jan. 25 2016 13:31:32)
quote: It may be played by a musician who has the ability to bring out its finest qualities, or it may be played by a mediocre player who is not up to the level of the guitar. On a related point, is it possible for a great guitar to sound mediocre unless played by a great guitarist? I ask as I recently had the chance to play some top name guitars that were being auctioned off as part of a collectors estate. I thought I'd go to the public viewing as I've been frequently intrigued by the descriptions of Felipe V Condes, Gerundinos etc on this forum: as a relative newcomer to flamenco, they always made me wonder what a top guitar must sound and play like. To my great surprise, I was somewhat underwhelmed. There was a heavily played 1960s 1a Ramirez which sounded lovely - deep basses, singing trebles and warm open tone, plus a Felipe V Conde blanca which was also fantastic. However there were 3 other Felipe V Condes, plus some 1990s Gerundinos, other Ramirez, etc none of which sounded much better than my Bernal Sueno (dare I say it). Some explanations that occured to me are: 1. I'm not good enough to make the other guitars sound good (no idea whether this is possible/common, or whether great guitars generally sound great regardless of player?) 2. My ear has become accustomed to what my guitar sounds like and initially dislikes anything too different (that said, the 1a Ramirez didn't sound too much like my Bernal so maybe not such a factor)? 3. The guitars might have been sat in their cases for ages without being played. I know from previous discussions on here that this can be a factor, but could it fundamentally impact the sound of the guitar temporarily - or is it a matter of a few % points in tonal difference? Thoughts?

xirdneH_imiJ -> RE: what makes a guitar so great? (Jan. 25 2016 14:13:20)
I'd say all of these are true. You need a guitarist that feels how the guitar wants to be played. Also our ears become accustomed to our own guitars, and also to ones that we listen to a lot. But of course personal taste is very important. One person's great guitar will sound and perhaps feel mediocre to someone else.

rojarosguitar -> RE: what makes a guitar so great? (Jan. 25 2016 14:42:07)
In my experience Ican say that a great player will sound great on any instrument, and if the instrument complemets him or her, they will sound even greater. A mediocre player may sound better on a great instrument, but also may not, if the instrument requires certain special skills to bring forth it's qualities. A bad player will sound bad on any of them and maybe especially bad on good instruments, because these sometimes are very unforgiving towards bad sound production. And within the guitars that can be considered greatly made some might be more supportive for a player than others, because it depends on the interaction of both, player and instrument. So sometimes a guitar that one great playr thinks is great may be considered not so great by another player with different preferences.

Leñador -> RE: what makes a guitar so great? (Jan. 25 2016 14:42:47)
quote: what makes a guitar so great? It's not a saxophone [:D]

RobJe -> RE: what makes a guitar so great? (Jan. 25 2016 15:13:26)
quote: I recently had the chance to play some top name guitars that were being auctioned off as part of a collectors estate I think that you might be referring to the December 2015 Bromptons Auction of about 50 classical and flamenco guitars in London. Sadly, apart from the 78 Reyes the other 22 flamenco guitars were strung up left-handed making it impossible for a right handed player to make a proper assessment. I worked out a few "backwards" chords to play rasgueado in order to get some kind of impression. The 60s Conde did indeed have the earthy sound of the period but the guitar front was bulging so much that I wondered how long it would last - it sold for £200 which was about right I think. Another disappointing guitar was the Marcelino Lopez - but interesting to see a guitar with a three piece front. There were quite a few guitars from what I would call makers' "dodgy periods" (not necessarily bad guitars), such as Gerundinos produced after he had retired and/or after he had died! I followed the online sale (a first for Bromptons) and noticed that several people ended up buying a few guitars each - perhaps they were dealers? I got my own bargain by the way! Rob

julianev -> RE: what makes a guitar so great? (Jan. 25 2016 15:54:40)
quote: I think that you might be referring to the December 2015 Bromptons Auction of about 50 classical and flamenco guitars in London... I worked out a few "backwards" chords to play rasgueado in order to get some kind of impression. Yep, that was the one. I tried the same approach - many years ago I enjoyed a few drunken music sessions featuring a Hendrix-style reverse strung Stratocaster, so it wasn't a completely unfamiliar experience! Glad you got a bargain. I appeared to have won the 1a Ramirez at a remarkably cheap price, until at close the online auction decided to award the completed sale to someone else for an even cheaper price! I subsequently complained, and after an allegedly extensive investigation apparently they have discovered a bug in Invaluable's web site. It all seems a tiny bit suspect, but I did pick up a Juan Hernandez concert blanca ( mis-listed as a Juan Fernandez ) in the after-sale bids for their unsold inventory at a great price, so I can't really complain. The nice Conde I was referring to was a 1998 Felipe V spruce top blanca - think it went for just under £2000.

BarkellWH -> RE: what makes a guitar so great? (Jan. 25 2016 17:31:30)
quote: It's not a saxophone ...or a harmonica. Bill

tk -> RE: what makes a guitar so great? (Jan. 25 2016 17:32:58)
Question: what makes a guitar so great? Answer: Usually, the guitar Maker

Ricardo -> RE: what makes a guitar so great? (Jan. 25 2016 19:37:01)
Relative humidity has a big affect.

koenie17 -> RE: what makes a guitar so great? (Jan. 25 2016 20:46:49)
Why didn´t I knew about this auction??!![&:][:@][&o]

DaveyS -> RE: what makes a guitar so great? (Jan. 26 2016 0:58:58)
I bought some guitars at that auction and one of them was a 1998 Felipe V Blanca and one was a 1998 Gerundino cedar top. I didn't expect to win the Gerundino (I think I was the only person who bid on it) and at first I was disappointed by it however now I have played them both a lot the Gerundino has shown itself to be incredibly loud, complex and expressive. It is one that I will never sell.

Ruphus -> RE: what makes a guitar so great? (Jan. 26 2016 4:37:09)
It´s like Ricardo mentioned above. Humidity conditons can have dramatic effect, and some guitars are specially prone (depending on values on assembly and mass, I think). Once had a Burguet sent to me by cab on a rainy day. It had been away only 2 or 3 days. Changed to no recogniition, totally dull and lifeless. As the dealer had put on new strings I tore them off in desperation and exchanged them, not aware of the actual cause. The extreme opposite (of low RH values) years later with a Ramirez that an idiot of cab driver had put into the trunk in the summer heat of well above 40° C, with a common low air humidity of 30% here and that at burning sunshine and traffic jam on a ~ 1 hour trip to my house. The guitar was totally dried out and even the strings deformed from heat. Yet, me couldn´t believe it to be the cause for the guitars total dumb being. Sat down and wrote a raging letter to the seller in Europe. Luckily without sending it out right away. A while later, after humidification the axe managed to recover (which bordered on a miracle) and turned out to be a gem. We are talking real day & night differences. - I am aware to have mentioned these examples several times, repeating them for thinking it to be about clues worth for everyone to note about (who hasn´t already consciously experienced such). From there, when you check out a guitar, it is always worth to find out what values there are at the place the instrument is being presented. I have seen bad humidity values even in specialized guitar stores. (With fret wires sticking out et al.) The conditions then can lead to disappointing impressions on guitars otherwise performing drastically different. Taking them home for some days on trial under moderate climate can reveal originally unexpected characteristics. And you can count with them improving even further over the course of weeks and months, depending on how badly deranged they were. Make sure to acclimatize them moderately in their case! Ruphus

gbv1158 -> RE: what makes a guitar so great? (Jan. 26 2016 17:49:38)
quote: Is a great guitar made, or is it discovered by a musician? a guitar must be made to be a great guitar, if not, you may appreciate the musician and Not both of them. great guitar = great Luthier - first of all. ciao giambattista

mmmenk -> RE: what makes a guitar so great? (Feb. 5 2016 8:00:05)
So true, it must be like a meeting of the minds, or a marriage made in heaven for the chemistry to really get cooking and bring out the best in both. I have been at jam sessions where amazing things were coming forth from the junkiest guitars, even with bad strings, broken strings, tied into knots to keep the party going, amazing stuff, almost spiritual.

mmmenk -> RE: what makes a guitar so great? (Feb. 5 2016 8:13:02)
we can talk about the guitar of commerce, pick one up at walmart. Not worth playing, if you are a real guitarist. But good for a kid, or to take to the beach. Everyone starts somewhere. We all know what we want. That is part of the passion. A great guitar is where you find it. In my experience, I believe that fine hand made instruments are generally better than the player will ever be. Something to aspire to, like trying to play a Bach prelude,or a great falsetta.

mmmenk -> RE: what makes a guitar so great? (Feb. 5 2016 8:16:13)
What are you talking about, the horse or the jockey. No contest without the horse, there would never be a race?

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