Ricardo -> RE: Flamenco harmony for theory freaks! (or musical illiterate freaks) (Feb. 11 2023 19:10:17)
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This guy's channel has another video about a flamenco tonality. The first video in his youtube channel. What does he mean by a secondary relative minor tonality? Can we really use it to explain flamenco harmony? You can use many ways to “explain” flamenco harmony, but it is contingent on the fact you understand the system the terminology is BORROWED FROM. In flamenco, you should be learning harmony via accompanying cante and don’t play the wrong chords at the wrong time, etc. And apply that harmonic concept to baile as well, to understand deep the rhythmic language at work. Both of these can be explained by other systems, for example this guy is coming from Jazz/Western Classical…so he is SPEAKING to an audience that already grasps those systems (i.e. he is speaking to ME and not YOU!! [:D]). And so I totally get where he is coming from. I have dropped comments on his other vids where he has made errors (IMO) due to certain specific exceptions that appear in practice (for example his concept of 5+7 compas, or labeling Buleria Larga as a “Solea” melody). For the most part I don’t have a problem, because I understand relative keys and modes (I have tried to point to the simplicity of the Circle of 5ths, but people don’t want to understand this “weird round stuff”). The reason he says “relative minor” for what we know is Phrygian, is because Phrygian, LIKE DORIAN, from a jazz perspective, is a MINOR MODE, due to the minor third degree. So E Dorian uses F# and C#, E Aeolian uses F# sharp, and E Phrygian uses no sharps or flats, and if you want to add Locrian, it uses a flat 5th, otherwise still considered “minor”. So in key of C major you have two relative major modes (F lydian, G mixolydian) and 4 relative minor modes (D dorian, A Aeolian, E Phrygian, and B Locrian). Since “Dorian” is not considered a “key” he is referring to relative minor (A Aeolian), and the SECONDARY MINOR is E Phrygian. He is basically admitting, without admitting openly, that he views E Phrygian not as a simple relative mode (because he would be leaving out the other TWO minor modes), but as a “key”. I agree with him in this regard, however, as a jazz guy he is not clearly saying THAT specific thing. Now, I know people’s panties bunch up at “minor mode” because in flamenco we apply a G# to the tonic triad (E Major), then here come out of the wood work all the synthetic scales and Arabic high jazz, etc etc. People need to understand that with KEYS not modes, you have cadences where the tonic chord, major or minor, would have a final major third. Meaning music in A minor will finally end on an A MAJOR chord despite all the rest that happened in the music. (See Bach well temp clavier all the minor key preludes and fugues where you can quantify how many times he ends the minor keys with a major chord). This practice is referred to as a “Picardy Third”, but jazz guys don’t use that terminology, but they otherwise understand that is what is happening with Phrygian in these flamenco cases (assuming they understand flamenco at all). A good example is Miles Davis, I showed recently and zero comments on it, where He and Trane play F naturals melodically, but the D chord the piano plays uses F#….again it occurs as a normal tension over the Eb chord (Eb over a D bass note). So jazz guys know what is going on, but they use their own terminology, or relate it to loose “bluesy” concepts where you get away with whatever “feels right”. So keep in mind, flamenco has its own system in place. If flamenco is what you want to learn, DO THAT. If you later want to understand how or why it operates, in context of western music, then first learn western music (classical jazz, rock, whatever you want). To understand this dude, you need some jazz chops.
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