luthiers in Spain worth recommending (Full Version)

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rafapak -> luthiers in Spain worth recommending (Aug. 13 2015 21:31:47)

hi guys

I would like to ask you for recommending good luthiers who build their flamenco guitars in Spain. I watch flamenco youtube clips a lot recently and observed that spanish people play really good quality instruments which means that they probably buy them in Spain. If you recommend luthier, please if it is possible tell also town where he lives and where his instruments can be bought.



jshelton5040 -> RE: luthiers in Spain worth recommending (Aug. 13 2015 21:56:52)

The best luthiers live in the US, Britain and (one) in Japan. Forget Spain they're completely out of touch with current standards. [:D]



Leñador -> RE: luthiers in Spain worth recommending (Aug. 13 2015 22:06:27)

I'm not sure how anyone could ever really get an idea of how good a guitar sounds via youtube...........once something goes into a microphone(good or bad) and then out your speakers(good or bad) it's sound has changed for better or worse depending. Either way, it's changed.
For me how it feels in my hands is equally important to sound, and that you'll never be able to tell without playing it.
Or you get one custom made for you by a luthier and trust that he knows how to give you what your looking for. Which many can do, and, as John said maybe even more can do outside of Spain.
Spanish guitar players buy spanish guitars because they're Spanish. Good guitars are everywhere. Paco de Lucia played a guitar by a luthier from California.



rafapak -> RE: luthiers in Spain worth recommending (Aug. 13 2015 22:14:23)

thanks for replies. Do you know guys what brands are popular among spanish people in Spain?



Leñador -> RE: luthiers in Spain worth recommending (Aug. 13 2015 22:30:25)

Conde
That's obviously what I should've said from the beginning right??? [:D]



tri7/5 -> RE: luthiers in Spain worth recommending (Aug. 13 2015 22:41:13)

I am a bit lost on your posts. You talk about flying to spain and buying a guitar yet you ask about cutaway cordoba guitars and playing with a pick because flamenco is too hard. I think you should really ask yourself if you just want to dabble or fully commit to the art.



rafapak -> RE: luthiers in Spain worth recommending (Aug. 13 2015 22:52:16)

i am kind of chaotic now because on one hand i want to play with a pick and on the other hand i would like to learn rumba rhythms etc. i think i will end up buying two guitars- one with and one without cutaway



Leñador -> RE: luthiers in Spain worth recommending (Aug. 13 2015 23:12:51)

quote:

on one hand i want to play with a pick and on the other hand i would like to learn rumba rhythms etc.

Why can't you do rumba rhythms on a cutaway???
You need a GK guitar, no sense dropping 5K on a luthier made instrument just to play rumba.......that's craziness. Save the extra money for all the amps and sound gear you need for rumba......



rafapak -> RE: luthiers in Spain worth recommending (Aug. 13 2015 23:17:49)

good advice, thanks!



BarkellWH -> RE: luthiers in Spain worth recommending (Aug. 13 2015 23:44:22)

quote:

I would like to ask you for recommending good luthiers who build their flamenco guitars in Spain. I watch flamenco youtube clips a lot recently and observed that spanish people play really good quality instruments which means that they probably buy them in Spain. If you recommend luthier, please if it is possible tell also town where he lives and where his instruments can be bought.


Rafapak,

With all due respect, I think you are a bit confused about what makes a good guitar, how much it costs, and how it sounds. In another thread you posted videos of two guitars and asked their monetary value as gauged by their sound. Now you say that Spanish people play "really good quality instruments which means that they probably buy them in Spain."

As I wrote in your previous thread, "It's impossible to gauge the price range from the sound alone. What is the make? The luthier? The model? The label was too small for me to read when it was flashed at the beginning. I have three flamencos, including one relatively inexpensive Manuel Adalid viviana blanca for which I paid $2,500. Yet, the Manuel Adalid sounds as good as, or better than, some guitars I have played that were in the range of $5,000 or more. I think it is a mistake to judge a guitar's monetary value by sound alone because you can easily be deceived."

Likewise, just because a Spaniard plays a guitar does not mean it is made in Spain, although it probably is because it would be cheaper for him to buy it there. And if it is made in Spain, it does not mean it is a first-rate instrument. There are plenty of factory-built guitars (and some made by luthiers as well) made in Spain that are just mediocre.

I sense that you are operating under certain misperceptions and are trying to purchase a guitar based on those misperceptions rather than reality. My humble advice would be to back off for awhile, regroup, and read some past threads on the virtues and drawbacks of various makes and models of guitars. Read the threads carefully and then make a considered decision based on the information contained therein and your own level of ability and the playability of guitars you try out.

Bill



estebanana -> RE: luthiers in Spain worth recommending (Aug. 14 2015 0:25:28)

Forget buying a guitar in Spain for now.

Go to Spain and LISTEN to flamenco.
Go try a bunch of guitars, take a cheap guitar with you and take lessons. Learn some Spanish, get drunk, eat food, soak in Spanish stuff. Go to museums.

You're not ready to buy a guitar yet. You don't know what kind of player you are. When you figure it out then buy a substantial guitar.



BarkellWH -> RE: luthiers in Spain worth recommending (Aug. 14 2015 1:22:45)

quote:

You're not ready to buy a guitar yet...When you figure it out then buy a substantial guitar.


And don't overlook the luthiers who are Foro members. Their guitars are as good as, and in many cases better than, those you would find in Spain.

Bill



Sr. Martins -> RE: luthiers in Spain worth recommending (Aug. 14 2015 1:54:46)

If you buy a "great guitar", there's a huge chance that you won't be enough of a player to acknowledge why it is "great".

By the time you're good enough to know, probably you'll realize you want something else very different.


Just stick with anything you get until you can figure this out. Lots of great players on youtube with 50€ guitars and a cheap smartphone that captivate me more than fancy Conde players on a stage with mics.



Blondie#2 -> RE: luthiers in Spain worth recommending (Aug. 14 2015 7:18:36)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leñador

quote:

on one hand i want to play with a pick and on the other hand i would like to learn rumba rhythms etc.

Why can't you do rumba rhythms on a cutaway???
You need a GK guitar, no sense dropping 5K on a luthier made instrument just to play rumba.


I agree, we are starting to go round in circles with all these threads you are starting, and some of the guys may not have read all your other posts, you are just going to get more and more confused.

One more thing - the reason the guitars sound so good to you in the videos you see is probably because the guys can play. You could buy a £5k guitar but actually you won't be able make it sound any different to a £500 guitar at the moment. Spend some money on lessons!

Honestly, I think you'd be happy with the basic Cordoba GK studio. Seen these?





Just get a guitar and get on with it, you can always upgrade/trade in later if you wish or if you get the bug to play proper flamenco.

Oh and book a Skype lesson with Ricardo to learn Rumba tech properly.



Johnc -> RE: luthiers in Spain worth recommending (Aug. 14 2015 7:57:31)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jshelton5040

The best luthiers live in the US, Britain and (one) in Japan. Forget Spain they're completely out of touch with current standards. [:D]


Anders lives in Spain, and he's not so bad ;)



Stephen Eden -> RE: luthiers in Spain worth recommending (Aug. 14 2015 8:55:40)

I've heard that 'the best flamenco guitars are made in Spain' so many times. Before I actually knew what real a Luthier was I thought the same thing. I was in Spain having a holiday and bought myself a cheap guitar thinking that it was the nuts. Only to come home to find the same guitar cheaper in a shop in town - 'Gutted'.

On a serious note though I think we must be deluding our selves if we think we can build guitars as good as anyone in Spain. I think I'll go see if my local supermarket has any jobs going.

I just don't get the logic of saying something like that in a forum that is made up of predominantly non spanish builders!

Perhaps you are ready for a guitar made by a certain Andalucian company



rafapak -> RE: luthiers in Spain worth recommending (Aug. 14 2015 9:32:49)

thanks guys for valuable info!



Ricardo -> RE: luthiers in Spain worth recommending (Aug. 14 2015 17:15:14)

bla bla bla....here is the truth. Many top players are of the opinion "they don't make em like they used to...", which is not really true BUT understandable. That means you can go for used vintage guitars...assuming they are REASONABLY priced. Since the economic problems have hit spain for the last few years, we see some real treasures being unloaded. For serious players and collectors, as sad as it is, NOW is the time to invest IMO. Grab em while they are hot. Pro flamenco players seem to trust these guys in Barcelona, I have come across at least one instrument that was unloaded here and the place seems legit. Used guitars can be in relatively good or bad shape, but I have not seen better deals anywhere else. These guys are in Barcelona...so for spanish made instruments IN SPAIN, this is a dream come true IMO.

http://www.flamencoguitarsforsale.net/en/home.html



Leñador -> RE: luthiers in Spain worth recommending (Aug. 14 2015 22:17:50)

What you're saying Ricardo sounds great, for one of us. I don't think Rafa needs to buy a nice flamenco to decide whether or not he wants to play Ottmar Liebert tunes.....



estebanana -> RE: luthiers in Spain worth recommending (Aug. 15 2015 1:27:43)

Get this one:

http://www.flamencoguitarsforsale.net/en/flamenco-guitars/used-flamenco-guitars/bellido-2008-bolita-en.html

The best one hands down.

I like this one, it's the kind of guitar I model my own work on. Reminds me of the Bellido Antonio Moya plays.



Leñador -> RE: luthiers in Spain worth recommending (Aug. 15 2015 4:54:28)

Wow, impressive pedigree for $3,900 euros.



Blondie#2 -> RE: luthiers in Spain worth recommending (Aug. 15 2015 8:10:08)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo
These guys are in Barcelona...so for spanish made instruments IN SPAIN, this is a dream come true IMO.

http://www.flamencoguitarsforsale.net/en/home.html


Yeah that place is mouth watering. Tempting just to get a flight there to pick up something but i'd be terrified of getting it ruined on the flight back.



rafapak -> RE: luthiers in Spain worth recommending (Aug. 21 2015 20:22:43)

quote:

If you buy a "great guitar", there's a huge chance that you won't be enough of a player to acknowledge why it is "great".

By the time you're good enough to know, probably you'll realize you want something else very different.


Just stick with anything you get until you can figure this out. Lots of great players on youtube with 50€ guitars and a cheap smartphone that captivate me more than fancy Conde players on a stage with mics.


thanks for wise advice !



Tom Blackshear -> RE: luthiers in Spain worth recommending (Aug. 26 2015 13:10:10)

Here is a Manuel Adalid flamenco negra that is Spanish made in Valencia.

https://www.lasonanta.eu/en/guitarras-flamencas/manuel-adalid-viviana-model-negra-prof-flamenco-guitar.html



Anders Eliasson -> RE: luthiers in Spain worth recommending (Sep. 3 2015 8:29:20)

I really feel sorry for you guys building guitars and not living in Spain.
I can read from your posts that you feel poor and inferior about this. To bad for you guys, because you will never be "real" Spanish guitar makers. [:D] (nor will I)

Actually. I logged in on the foro after having been away for 6 weeks and this is the first thread I read. I tried to keep a distance but its very difficult NOT to feel offended by some of the posts by other builders. So thats why I wrote the above.



Escribano -> RE: luthiers in Spain worth recommending (Sep. 3 2015 10:39:24)

Welcome back Anders.



Tom Blackshear -> RE: luthiers in Spain worth recommending (Sep. 3 2015 12:31:23)

I think Anders has every right to express his opinion here, but not all of it do I agree with.

But I do agree that living in Spain is a grand experience for a Spanish style guitar maker so I salute Anders for pegging it point blank.

However, not all makers in Spain have risen to the level of Maestro.

This should be considered to be equal in all of its parts to those who have not been able to visit or live in Spain. The equality comes from a love of the art, not necessarily from where we live.



SephardRick -> RE: luthiers in Spain worth recommending (Sep. 3 2015 14:32:08)

Yeah, Anders. Things have been a little dull without your commentary during your absence.



d.eduardo -> RE: luthiers in Spain worth recommending (Sep. 15 2015 15:33:49)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leñador

Conde
That's obviously what I should've said from the beginning right??? [:D]


based on some of the examples of their work I have played, I'd happily remove the "de" from Conde and this would be a more appropriate name. Entirely over-rated IMO.



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