First non Spaniard graduated in cante at Concervatory in Barcelona (Full Version)

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gerundino63 -> First non Spaniard graduated in cante at Concervatory in Barcelona (Jun. 8 2015 14:57:56)

Luna Zegers from Amsterdam, Holland, graduated as first non spaniard at the prestige ESMUC Concervatory in Barcelona

http://youtu.be/r_qsjsuhaPg



Miguel de Maria -> RE: First non Spaniard graduated in cante at Concervatory in Barcelona (Jun. 8 2015 15:18:30)

Man, I didn't even know that had cante at University :)



Escribano -> RE: First non Spaniard graduated in cante at Concervatory in Barcelona (Jun. 8 2015 16:07:09)

That can't be a walk in the park!



Pimientito -> RE: First non Spaniard graduated in cante at Concervatory in Barcelona (Jun. 8 2015 18:03:16)

quote:

That can't be a walk in the park!


Agreed! An amazing achievement.



Leñador -> RE: First non Spaniard graduated in cante at Concervatory in Barcelona (Jun. 8 2015 20:15:02)

Congrats to her! That indeed must have been very difficult.....



gerundino63 -> RE: First non Spaniard graduated in cante at Concervatory in Barcelona (Jun. 8 2015 20:52:56)

Maybe the Vondelpark?[;)]



Escribano -> RE: First non Spaniard graduated in cante at Concervatory in Barcelona (Jun. 8 2015 20:58:15)

quote:

Maybe the Vondelpark?


On a Sunday afternoon, around and around? Nah, tougher than that [;)]



Ricardo -> RE: First non Spaniard graduated in cante at Concervatory in Barcelona (Jun. 9 2015 3:05:00)

Well no offense to any of her friends or colleagues on here but it was hard to get past the ay ay ay part. [8|]

To give constructive advice she needed to (before graduation I guess)

1. figure out the proper key to sing in cuz it's too low for her.
2. Learn how to open her voice...the proper key will help that too.
3. record herself singing...because she is not in tune.
4. Learn singing technique of expression such as vibrato, accents and rhythms.
5. get the accent and inflexion details of the language a little more accurate.
6. most importantly...really feel it and express that, not just sing the song how it was learned.

I guess no. 6 is subjective. I wonder what Morante thinks? [8D] No I am lying, I already can imagine. I admit I am probably more critical of singers than guitar players for some reason, that's just me.

After all I guess it's cool they are teaching this stuff in schools. I just hope the graduates keep it real so they don't get badly injured egos when trying to work.



gerundino63 -> RE: First non Spaniard graduated in cante at Concervatory in Barcelona (Jun. 9 2015 7:50:50)

Well, Ricardo,
Advice is to learn from.
She could only be thankful for your honest opinion.



rombsix -> RE: First non Spaniard graduated in cante at Concervatory in Barcelona (Jun. 9 2015 12:00:59)

Olé and I agree with maestro Marlow.



jamh2000 -> RE: First non Spaniard graduated in cante at Concervatory in Barcelona (Jun. 9 2015 12:37:22)

The only criticism I think is a bit unfair is #3- she is only out of tune during the ay ay ays.



Morante -> RE: First non Spaniard graduated in cante at Concervatory in Barcelona (Jun. 9 2015 15:36:45)

http://www.lauravital.com/

Here is another cantaora who learned in the school of Cristine Heeren. She has the advantage of being española.

But she has not learned that flamenco is "trasmitir". She has most of the elements, but is a boring cantaora: I have heard her live several times.

These people need to listen to Fernanda. Cantaores are not cantantes.



tijeretamiel -> RE: First non Spaniard graduated in cante at Concervatory in Barcelona (Jun. 9 2015 16:57:08)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Morante

http://www.lauravital.com/

Here is another cantaora who learned in the school of Cristine Heeren. She has the advantage of being española.

But she has not learned that flamenco is "trasmitir". She has most of the elements, but is a boring cantaora: I have heard her live several times.

These people need to listen to Fernanda. Cantaores are not cantantes.


Morante can you describe the term 'trasmitir'? I listened to a video of Laura Vital, a bit too 'ordered' for my liking if that makes sense.

I presume you mean Fernanda de Utrera? I love Fernanda (and Bernarda) de Utrera. Their album Cultura Jonde VII is one of the albums I've listened to the most in recent years.



Morante -> RE: First non Spaniard graduated in cante at Concervatory in Barcelona (Jun. 9 2015 18:00:49)

quote:

Morante can you describe the term 'trasmitir'?


No need: it simply means transmit, but to transmit emotion. Your decription of "ordered" is perfect.

When you sit in front of an "ordered" cantaor who is always in tune, knows all the letras and has compás, you are not involved. Rather you might be thinking He said he was going to sing alegrias, but now its cantiñas, or he has mixed letras from 2 well known verses, or the phrasing for that letra was all wrong.

When you sit in front of Agujetas, Juan Villar, Rancapino, Fernanda, you are transfixed: the emotion they transmit transports you to another dimension.

You probably would´nt even notice if they went out of compás, because cante flamenco is more than a sum of the parts.



Ricardo -> RE: First non Spaniard graduated in cante at Concervatory in Barcelona (Jun. 9 2015 19:31:51)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jamh2000

The only criticism I think is a bit unfair is #3- she is only out of tune during the ay ay ays.


I listened to the rest to be fair. Any musician or singer will improve if they get in the habit of recording themselves and being self critical. Most of the greatest can't stand hearing themselves because they are constantly improving on the imperfections. If you record yourself and listen back and think "wow, I sound AWESOME!!"...then it's all over pretty much. Autotune ain't for flamencos, I am sorry.

Ricardo



bicharraco -> RE: First non Spaniard graduated in cante at Concervatory in Barcelona (Jun. 11 2015 10:44:04)

conservatorio, Barcelona, holandesa, graduación en cante.... Todos esos conceptos están en las antípodas del flamenco.

He visto el video un rato y lo he tenido que quitar porque me ha generado rechazo. Sus gestos y su acento andaluz impostado....no se, hay algo que no me gusta nada.

Muchas veces cuando veo "guiri performances " siento como si estuvieran faltando el respeto a mi cultura, pues a menudo me parecen caricaturas bufas. Especialmente cuando alguien se atreve a cantar, siento vergüenza ajena.

Se que es injusto porque en realidad a esa gente les mueve un profundo amor por la cultura flamenca y andaluza, pero no puedo evitarlo.



tijeretamiel -> RE: First non Spaniard graduated in cante at Concervatory in Barcelona (Jun. 11 2015 12:30:36)

quote:

conservatorio, Barcelona, holandesa, graduación en cante.... Todos esos conceptos están en las antípodas del flamenco.

He visto el video un rato y lo he tenido que quitar porque me ha generado rechazo. Sus gestos y su acento andaluz impostado....no se, hay algo que no me gusta nada.

Muchas veces cuando veo "guiri performances " siento como si estuvieran faltando el respeto a mi cultura, pues a menudo me parecen caricaturas bufas. Especialmente cuando alguien se atreve a cantar, siento vergüenza ajena.

Se que es injusto porque en realidad a esa gente les mueve un profundo amor por la cultura flamenca y andaluza, pero no puedo evitarlo.


Had to go through the meat grinder of Google Translate but it seems to be an interesting and honest post.



Leñador -> RE: First non Spaniard graduated in cante at Concervatory in Barcelona (Jun. 11 2015 13:43:56)

quote:

Muchas veces cuando veo "guiri performances " siento como si estuvieran faltando el respeto a mi cultura, pues a menudo me parecen caricaturas bufas. Especialmente cuando alguien se atreve a cantar, siento vergüenza ajena.

I feel the same way when Spaniards come here to surf and skate, then they complain that our tacos are too spicey lol [:D]



Morante -> RE: First non Spaniard graduated in cante at Concervatory in Barcelona (Jun. 11 2015 18:29:44)

quote:

pues a menudo me parecen caricaturas bufas.


Hola amigo, estoy de acuerdo contigo, pero tengo que confesar que la otra noche estaba en el mítico bar el Manteco, con Tomás, hijo del dueño. Por algún razón, alguien sacó una guitarra. Yo tocaba un rato pero ni uno de los gaditanos sabía cantar. Terminé tocando y cantando un fandango que dejó a la gente flipao: no tengo voz ninguna, pero la letra....

Te llaman y reclaman a votar
Te llaman y reclaman a votar
Te ofrecen el oro y el moro del desierto
Pero cuando están arriba otra vez
Entonces olvidan de to
Eso es para cagar en sus muertos, ayyy, ayyy, ayy.

un abrazo

Morante



Thomas -> RE: First non Spaniard graduated in cante at Concervatory in Barcelona (Jun. 11 2015 19:47:53)

quote:



..... Yo tocaba un rato pero ni uno de los gaditanos sabía cantar. Terminé tocando y cantando un fandango que dejó a la gente flipao.....

Morante


[8|]



Estevan -> RE: First non Spaniard graduated in cante at Concervatory in Barcelona (Jun. 11 2015 20:23:56)

quote:

Te llaman y reclaman a votar
Te llaman y reclaman a votar
Te ofrecen el oro y el moro del desierto
Pero cuando están arriba otra vez
Entonces olvidan de to
Eso es para cagar en sus muertos, ayyy, ayyy, ayy.


¡Olé!



bicharraco -> RE: First non Spaniard graduated in cante at Concervatory in Barcelona (Jun. 15 2015 12:58:46)

un español puede ganar un campeonato de surf, pero puede un estadounidense cantar por solvencia por soleá?

Hay culturas que pueden ser exportadas industrialmente a todos los rincones del mundo, pues para eso han sido diseñadas, y hay otras que no pueden salir de su territorio sin perder su esencia.



Leñador -> RE: First non Spaniard graduated in cante at Concervatory in Barcelona (Jun. 15 2015 14:36:50)

That's true, it's more like Spaniards trying to sing the blues or bluegrass.



Miguel de Maria -> RE: First non Spaniard graduated in cante at Concervatory in Barcelona (Jun. 15 2015 15:12:19)

Nothing worse than Andalucians singing the blues. Or French playing jazz. Or anyone not born in the US playing rock. Heck, I see a foreigner play a stratocaster and I feel my country's honor has been sullied. "My name is Inigo Montoya. You sang my people music. Prepare to die."



tijeretamiel -> RE: First non Spaniard graduated in cante at Concervatory in Barcelona (Jun. 15 2015 15:26:31)

Going off topic, but I imagine it'd be akin to American Blues fans being told Eric Clapton is a master of the genre.

Eric Clapton famously said
"Do we have any foreigners in the audience tonight? If so, please put up your hands. Wogs I mean, I'm looking at you. Where are you? I'm sorry but some ****ing wog...Arab grabbed my wife's bum, you know? Surely got to be said, yeah this is what all the ****ing foreigners and wogs over here are like, just disgusting, that's just the truth, yeah. So where are you? Well wherever you all are, I think you should all just leave. Not just leave the hall, leave our country. You ****ing (indecipherable). I don't want you here, in the room or in my country. Listen to me, man! I think we should vote for Enoch Powell. Enoch's our man. I think Enoch's right, I think we should send them all back. Stop Britain from becoming a black colony. Get the foreigners out. Get the wogs out. Get the coons out. Keep Britain white. I used to be into dope, now I'm into racism. It's much heavier, man. ****ing wogs, man. ****ing Saudis taking over London. Bastard wogs. Britain is becoming overcrowded and Enoch will stop it and send them all back. The black wogs and coons and Arabs and ****ing Jamaicans and ****ing (indecipherable) don't belong here, we don't want them here. This is England, this is a white country, we don't want any black wogs and coons living here. We need to make clear to them they are not welcome. England is for white people, man. We are a white country. I don't want ****ing wogs living next to me with their standards. This is Great Britain, a white country, what is happening to us, for ****'s sake? We need to vote for Enoch Powell, he's a great man, speaking truth. Vote for Enoch, he's our man, he's on our side, he'll look after us. I want all of you here to vote for Enoch, support him, he's on our side. Enoch for Prime Minister! Throw the wogs out! Keep Britain white!"



Miguel de Maria -> RE: First non Spaniard graduated in cante at Concervatory in Barcelona (Jun. 15 2015 15:42:03)

EC is so famous and such a rock guitar icon that I am not sure the analogy works. I would guess a majority of music fans as well as players wouldn't take any issue with the idea that he was a blues master. I went through a brief EC phase in high school but quickly found the real stuff after that--Robert Johnson, Muddy, Sonny Boy Williamson, Elmore James. Now his playing just seems mostly noodly and pointless to me. But he did serve to introduce me to the major bluesmen. I have never heard a blues player (or singer) who was not black and from the South that I really liked. That being said, I am not sure how much black folks care about EC or the blues in general. They seemed to have moved on to R&B and rap and so forth. But is it an insult to black culture that EC or SRV or some guy from Andalucia tries to sing the blues? The notion is provincial and chauvanistic.



Morante -> RE: First non Spaniard graduated in cante at Concervatory in Barcelona (Jun. 15 2015 16:49:30)

Funnily enough, I can think of a couple of Americans who can sing quite respectably: our Estela and Richard Black "Quijote", who even accompanies himself. I believe he now lives in Rota, though the first time I met him in José Rebujina´s bar, I accompanied him por alegrías.

He was recently in Cádiz to accompany Antonio Puerto a fine singer:

The young lady who was the beginning of this discussion has a lot on her side and a few drunken juergas might help a lot



estebanana -> RE: First non Spaniard graduated in cante at Concervatory in Barcelona (Jun. 16 2015 1:41:54)

quote:

I feel the same way when Spaniards come here to surf and skate, then they complain that our tacos are too spicey lol


The bane of my existence, if I had dime for every teary eyed Spaniard at the taco truck. I've only known one, a Galician, who could hold his hot sauce.



Leñador -> RE: First non Spaniard graduated in cante at Concervatory in Barcelona (Jun. 16 2015 1:52:59)

Lol I don't actually know any Spaniards that surf and skate but the couple Spaniards I DO know max out on black table pepper and order tacos dry lol
Briseyda Zarate is pretty dern good singer for a 'merican. No videos online though.....



estebanana -> RE: First non Spaniard graduated in cante at Concervatory in Barcelona (Jun. 16 2015 2:31:26)

quote:

Lol I don't actually know any Spaniards that surf and skate but the couple Spaniards I


I know a lot of Spanish windsurfers, but really, what is windsurfing? Not actual surfing, but a kind of sailing.

Every time I hear the words Conservatory and Flamenco in the same sentence I fidget and can't figure out how to express my displeasure without being offensive.



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