Zapateado en Re

Zapateado en Re (Full Version)

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Patrick -> Zapateado en Re (Sep. 29 2003 18:48:27)
If you haven’t heard it, go over to FT and listen to TK's Zapateado en Re. Absolutely phenomenal.

Escribano -> RE: Zapateado en Re (Sep. 29 2003 21:55:50)
A hint of Segovia in there. Are you sure that's Todd, man he has come a long way even from where he was 6 months ago? To my layman's ear, that sounds about perfect, perhaps world class. I think I know it is Todd because his pick gives him away in the descending "picado", sounds a little mechanical and the chords distort at the end, with the pick's attack. Petty criticism, but sadly my money is on an influential critic grabbing hold of that kind of thing and it's "say Goodnight". You don't have to be able to sing or play a note to be a critic, right? He will need all of his talent to overcome his short fuse, and more. Perhaps that is a good thing.

Jon Boyes -> RE: Zapateado en Re (Sep. 30 2003 8:50:57)
When I recently said here that TK was the finest guitar player I had encountered on the net, I wasn't kidding. I wasn't just referring to his flamenco either. I hang out on some classical guitar forums, and he's been routinely posting concert-level guitar solos. Not just clips, but entire solos. This is very difficult stuff to play and he's learning them by ear off CDs and getting them up to recording standard in what seems like a matter of days. This is completely nuts! Meanwhile, all the 'issues' are still very much there. It will be a huge waste of talent if he doesn't get his act together.

Guest -> [Deleted] (Sep. 30 2003 16:23:09)
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Merle -> RE: Zapateado en Re (Sep. 30 2003 16:54:17)
Jon, below is a quote from Todd that he wrote on the Classical Guitar forum "I transcribed this piece from an old Sabicas video." Well, that is kinda not the truth at all. I mailed all the tabs for that zapateado to Todd around the time that FT shut down, so, why he would tell a little 'white lie', I don't know!? No big deal, but he did not transcribe that palo... Merle

Guest -> [Deleted] (Sep. 30 2003 17:10:50)
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Miguel de Maria -> RE: Zapateado en Re (Sep. 30 2003 18:21:42)
I don't know, transcribing doens't impress me that much. There are a limited number of patterns that you hear in flamenco... it's kind of like, I don't think Simon would be that impressed if some rock guy played a rock song. Wow, where did you get the tab for that? T?he difference is that Simon knows rock and has listened to it a lot. That and rock is a lot simpler than flamenco! Wait, I think I'm hurting my point now. But yeah, TK's control of the guitar is borderline world class. You have a guy here who has mastered the technique of playing the guitar and has a very strong sense of music. I do have three, perhaps minor, beefs about the clip. 1. the production...whatever effects he has on his guitar, I don't like it. It seems to smooth the sound so much that it gives me this MIDI effect. I am the only person who hears that? 2. I'm sorry Todd, but when I hear flamenco, I want to hear fingers! It just doesn't sound the same... I don't care how good a trumpet player is, he can't make his instrument sound like a french horn. That takes absolutely nothing away from his achievement. 3. TK's a lot better than I'll ever probably be, but I do not hear world class when I hear him. I hear top-level studio type musician, which to me is different than a top-quality concert performer. A bit more artisan than artist... but of course this is a highly subjective comment. Does anyone else hear this?

Ron.M -> RE: Zapateado en Re (Sep. 30 2003 21:09:06)
Jon, I would agree with you. Todd is a pretty exraordinary talent. Maybe talent is a much used word, but he certainly puts the time into his music and guitar work... and you can hear the results! I think this "studio isolation" way of thinking of Todd's is not really doing him any good. I've told him about this, but hey.. we're all grown ups now, so it's his choice. I think that ol' Todd has gone down the Flamenco Puro path for so long now, (for that's what he loves most), that he's learned enough over the years about the culture amongst the aficionados now, to think that somehow he's second rate because of his technique. I think this is what adds a lot to his defensive and sometimes egotistical and derogatory posts, which, if you think of it, is only the flip side of the coin. Todd could do himself a favour by at least having a month away from Anaplolis and see a bit of the World. As you know he plays various styles from Bluegrass to Jazz, and yes Flamenco. I feel if Todd could only see himself in the same way as say, Antonio Forcione...(who doesn't give a **** about labels and styles, he just plays what he feels like), he would be a lot happier bunny. I wish Todd would realize that his playing is excellent, probably World Class, certainly extremely professional, and get involved with playing guitar for a paying public rather than getting hung up on a mission to convince the "puros" that he's "kosher". I think once Todd realizes that fact, that he can provide a good evening's guitar entertainment to guitar aficionados, not just flamenco aficionados, he'll have a lot better time and be a lot less poor. cheers Ron

Escribano -> RE: Zapateado en Re (Oct. 1 2003 0:26:56)
Funnily enough I went right off Segovia when I heard what a miserable bastard he was. Then again I'm a bit of challenge so maybe there's hope? You do know that Todd's studio is called "Anger Management", go figure. Now it's just sour grapes from me, doh!

Escribano -> RE: Zapateado en Re (Oct. 1 2003 0:42:52)
quote: I don't think Simon would be that impressed if some rock guy played a rock song. Wow, where did you get the tab for that? Now that's a good point, we never tabbed anyone else's stuff, always by ear. We changed it a little and it's called a cover... BUT rock bands never make their name with covers. You're right though, stomping a 4/4 is a piece of piss in comparison. By the way, my old band made a recent Rough Trade Post Punk compilation CD, available at all good outlets, Shockheaded Peters - I Bloodbrother Be (£4,000 Love Letter) Which is nice[;)]

Jon Boyes -> RE: Zapateado en Re (Oct. 1 2003 11:56:35)
quote: ORIGINAL: Michael W Cho 1. the production...whatever effects he has on his guitar, I don't like it. It seems to smooth the sound so much that it gives me this MIDI effect. I am the only person who hears that? 2. I'm sorry Todd, but when I hear flamenco, I want to hear fingers! It just doesn't sound the same... I don't care how good a trumpet player is, he can't make his instrument sound like a french horn. That takes absolutely nothing away from his achievement. 3. TK's a lot better than I'll ever probably be, but I do not hear world class when I hear him. I hear top-level studio type musician, which to me is different than a top-quality concert performer. A bit more artisan than artist... but of course this is a highly subjective comment. Does anyone else hear this? 1. That's compression, Michael. I listened to the piece in Cool Edit and it was immediately visible (from the waveform). If you record a lot of nylon strung guitar you can see when something has been heavily compressed. All the peaks are rounded off and smoothed, which makes the recording less dynamic and spiky. TK says he added a 'little' compression to it, but of course what one person hears as 'a little', another hears as 'a lot'. He also said he's running his mic through a limiter, which again can be problematic if overdone. Todd is a far more experienced studio technician than me, but it just goes to show how subjective certain aspects of production are. 2. I know what you mean about the sound of fingers, I certainly prefer it in flamenco and no doubt I would like Todd's stuff even more if he played that way, but to my ears even with a pick his material sounds far superior to some famous flamenco players I could mention. (...and come to think of it, you might agree with me given what you've said in the past about at least one of them!) 3. I think I know what you mean. He would probably certainly make a great session musician -he is very versatile. The only thing I'd say here is that I think he needs to spend less time learning note-for-note virtuoso pieces to impress his peers/gain recognition whatever, and more time actually developing his own voice and style with the guitar. ..and hopefully sort those 'issues' out.

Jim Opfer -> RE: Zapateado en Re (Oct. 2 2003 18:33:19)
Jon's post above, "I wasn't just referring to his flamenco either. I hang out on some classical guitar forums, and he's been routinely posting concert-level guitar solos. Not just clips, but entire solos. This is very difficult stuff to play and he's learning them by ear off CDs and getting them up to recording standard in what seems like a matter of days. This is completely nuts!" Just a thought, but Todd crops up in all these Web sites and posts all this music. my question is; has anyone actually met or spoken with Todd? Just makes me think that perhaps he's not a real person, maybe a machine, some discarded Microsoft experiment that hangs around the net and demoralises everyone! ??? Cheers Jim.

Escribano -> RE: Zapateado en Re (Oct. 2 2003 20:24:19)
quote: some discarded Microsoft experiment that hangs around the net and demoralises everyone! Nah, we wouldn't do that [;)] Actually, I think one of us has met and heard him but can't recall who it is.

Guest -> [Deleted] (Oct. 2 2003 21:07:40)
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Escribano -> RE: Zapateado en Re (Oct. 3 2003 8:44:57)
To be fair, Todd explains quote: I've been hitting this one for about six months

Miguel de Maria -> RE: Zapateado en Re (Oct. 3 2003 18:47:42)
On the other hand, when you are playing something at your technical level, it's a snap to pick it up. These pieces are made of a vocabulary of notes, words, phrases, scales, and chords. Once you are familiar with them and how they are used, it's relatively easy to piece them together. Not saying I can pull off the things TK plays or anything like that! But people like Yehudi Menuhin and Christopher Parkening were known to memorize and play virtuoso level pieces overnight, when pressed.

Jerzy -> RE: Zapateado en Re (Oct. 15 2003 3:44:49)
Hi guys and gals!! Sorry for not postng to much, but you know, I don't have enough spare time. I had a chance to hear "Zapateado en Re" at the borneo CG forum from TK and the new stuff he showed at FT. What I wonder is when does he realy works? how does he make his living?, or just when deos he uses his recording studio for others, which is why hi has it? I hardly have a chance to write and comment things on the forum; having to take care of my responsabilities on my 12 hrs job[:@] (THANKS GOD I have it this hard days [:)]!!); take care of the family and play guitar. IMO Todd, even that he is an acomplished very good ear to make up things, he is limited on his playing, technically he can not do alzapuas very often, or in zapateado he skip all the tremolo part, also in the Manolo Sanlucar guajira he didn't put it. When I try to transcribe a piece, I work at my last effort to make true to the original[&:] (classical guitar aproach if you like) and from all the clips that he posted on FT and other forums, he always skips the parts that technically can not do with the pick. Just my observation, but franckly one thing I envy him a lot, is all his spare time to come up with all the things he records. But then again, I've been trying to go out to public more often than I used before, becouse then, all that I -and all of us- do with our work on the guitar is almost useless if we not share it to other persons, trying to move their feelings as well, or to grant some relaxation from their normal day to day activities. Well my thoughts on this and very have big abrazo to all!![:)]

Escribano -> RE: Zapateado en Re (Oct. 15 2003 9:13:04)
Great to hear from you Jerzy and I see your point about missing bits one cannot actually play (I do it all the time[;)]) and with enough practise he will do it, but it's a hard path he has chosen. quote: the guitar is almost useless if we not share it to other persons I do and what impresses me is how many non-flamencos claim to actually play the guitar (they never say the are learning, because they aren't). Most can't even barre properly, know a single scale or arpeggio. They can strum Am and E though, so they are halfway there, right? There are a lot of talking guitarists out there and before flamenco, I as one of them.

Jon Boyes -> RE: Zapateado en Re (Oct. 15 2003 11:58:18)
Jerzy - great to hear from you again. quote: ORIGINAL: Jerzy I had a chance to hear "Zapateado en Re" at the borneo CG forum from TK and the new stuff he showed at FT. What I wonder is when does he realy works? how does he make his living?, or just when deos he uses his recording studio for others, which is why hi has it? As I understand it, Todd is a studio technician - that IS his living. He seems to be able to work as many hours as he wants (obviously no family to support, no mortgage etc.) and chooses to work very little, so he can devote the maximum time to guitar study. At least, this is what I've picked up from what he's said. I am unclear on how often he actually plays in public. quote: I hardly have a chance to write and comment things on the forum; having to take care of my responsabilities on my 12 hrs job[:@] (THANKS GOD I have it this hard days [:)]!!); take care of the family and play guitar. Jerzy, I know exactly where you are coming from - I work as a musician as well as having a day job and the family. Its tough, and the time I now have to sit down and practice/study properly, or just play for enjoyment, is practically nil, when I used to be doing about two hours a day guitar study. That's not to say I don't enioy what I do, I love it. I am sitting here in an office having just had five hours sleep after last nights gig', but I wouldnt want it any other way. (..er except maybe doing the guitar thing all the time :-) quote: IMO Todd, even that he is an accomplished very good ear to make up things, he is limited on his playing, technically he can not do alzapuas very often, or in zapateado he skip all the tremolo part, also in the Manolo Sanlucar guajira he didn't put it. That's true, but even amongst the great players I hear techniques that are sloppy, or some that they seem to steer clear of. I have a Paco Del Gastor album which shows a very weak, sloppy tremolo, for example. (Bad example I know, given that tremolo is not that important, but hopefully you get my point.) Also, is it me or is Alzapua less fashionable amongst contemporary players these days, at least in solo guitar? I think its natural to work to your strengths. We can't all be Paco :-) Hope you find time to post some more, Jerzy, and I wish you could make your sound clips available on your website in mp3 - the standard for Internet audio - as I can't access them at the moment. It seems I need a special type of browser decoder or something. It would be great to hear you play that PDL material. Jon

Miguel de Maria -> RE: Zapateado en Re (Oct. 15 2003 15:12:26)
Jon, not to stroke your ego or anything, but I prefered your sounds clips to you-know-who's. More soul! And better production, to my non-tutored ear.

Guest -> [Deleted] (Oct. 15 2003 16:15:27)
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Ron.M -> RE: Zapateado en Re (Oct. 15 2003 19:43:11)
Hey Mike & Andy.... And here's me thinking that you really liked the guy! [:D][:D][:D]

Miguel de Maria -> RE: Zapateado en Re (Oct. 15 2003 22:40:20)
What I meant on that last post was more positive for Jon than negative for TK. I really like the way Jon's clips sound. And he plays really tasty stuff.

Jon Boyes -> RE: Zapateado en Re (Oct. 16 2003 8:33:41)
Shucks![:)] Thanks Michael.

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