Lost Battle - Won Battle (Full Version)

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rojarosguitar -> Lost Battle - Won Battle (May 10 2015 20:51:39)

I resigned from playing with nails, because it brought so much frustration. I have tried all the usual remedies and glue and acrylic nails. While all the solutions weren't sitisfactory, my nails became nore and more frail and stopped to grow altogether, so I thought enough is enough.

This is quite a disorienting experience and I had to work hard to accept it. Finally I decided I'll see how far I can get without nails, and if they decide to grow again, well, welcome...

Not easy to become more stupid on the guitar than I was before (a master I never was) but also new things develop. I switched to softer strings, and some of my guitars suddenly came more alive.

Anyway, nothing to boast about, but here are my first recorded attempts to play without nails (well, to be more precise, I have a bit of nail on my thumb; on the other fingers the nails are so short that they barely come into contact with the strings,if at all.)







Sr. Martins -> RE: Lost Battle - Won Battle (May 10 2015 22:28:16)

Isn't the "first attempt: part 2" usually called "second attempt"?

Just kidding [:D]



It sounds nice, maybe the guitar is good too. You have a more rubbery sound now instead of the usual "clack clack" of the nail. I file away my nails from time to time and I get used to the sound but I never take them away completely, that would mess up technique more than sound.



Leñador -> RE: Lost Battle - Won Battle (May 11 2015 3:54:35)

Keep at man! The tone sounds fine to me and there's not much else in the world to compare to playing your instrument.



rojarosguitar -> RE: Lost Battle - Won Battle (May 11 2015 9:59:47)

@ Sr. Martins you're kind of right about the first and second attempt, but was just obe little recording situation and two different snippets if it, that's why I decided to keep it like that...

I would also prefer to keep very short nails and have at least a tiny edge, but they decided for themselves and seem not to grow at all at the moment.

Funny ehough, only on the right hand fingers. I still have to cut the left hand and toe nails ... If that isn't apllied psychology ...

Anyaway, thanks for the encouragement ... some techniques I never was good at became even more difficult, but that doesn't matter, I'll have to adjust to it.



Dudnote -> RE: Lost Battle - Won Battle (May 11 2015 12:21:01)

Nice playing rojarosguitar. You could have called this "lamento por la uña perdida".

I feel your nail pains man. The last 6-8 months I've enjoyed reasonable success with a combination of Mavala Scientifique Nail Hardner & OPI Nail Envy. I only put the OPI on my thumb. This has given me the best thumb nail I've ever had and I never break my thumb nail doing dumb stuff now. Works fine so long as I don't go overkill with lots of heavy thumb technique - if I do that a little ding starts to eat into the tip. Main down point - both products use formaldehyde so apply with care.

I also occasionally use Ecrinal - it's just a fancy mix of oils to keep the nail healthy. A daily nail bath in olive oil could probably do the same job - does wonders for horse hoves apparently.

Good luck



Ricardo -> RE: Lost Battle - Won Battle (May 11 2015 19:44:50)

Lot of people go through this. I personally think this issue can be resolved in about 2 weeks.

The enemy of the nails are two things.

1. carelessness
2. rasgueado

That is all really. To battle no. 1., one has to be diligent and learn to:
1. file nails correctly every day...even when they short, anybody can get started on this right away.
2. Use the left hand to do mundane tasks such as opening doors and grabbing things. For awhile anyway, until it becomes natural to be careful with what and how the right hand operates on a daily basis.
3. Technique. Learn the proper way to do rasgueados, the way to attack, how hard or soft to do it, same for all other techniques. The nails shape and length end up being a big part of technique and musical execution. Doing bad movements can damage the nails. Lots of folks don't even realize how say, the shape of a nail affects your wrist or thumb position. It is all tied together.

For no. 2, assuming you do proper rasgueados (a major assumption), some form of protection must be used. Depending on how aggressive and active you are as a player. For some, a light nail polish is enough, for others glue is needed. Once you go the fake nail route, it is hard to get out of it...I would say it is NOT necessary. Pro players inevitably find themselves in an awkward postion to do it or suffer on a gig. I learned long ago to suffer one gig is better.

Krazy glue is the way to go. It has to be FRESH, new bottle, and once opened, keep it in a zip lock back...treat it like food that can spoil, and when it is bad you will know because it won't dry properly, or flake off easy...it must be discarded. Again, take care whenever using such products.

I am not affraid to play without glue, I know to BE CAREFUL and make it through gigs with a wide dynamic range, saving up hard playing for certain moments. If the sound is bad, I dont' try to play louder or whatever, it is pointless. Just being careful and playing normally will be fine .... but be aware the more often this is done, the nails are getting worn by rasgueados...as if you are filing them from the top and thinning them out. That is what the Krazy glue is for. YOu file the glue down, NOT your nail.

Anyway, good luck man.

Ricardo



Miguel de Maria -> RE: Lost Battle - Won Battle (May 11 2015 20:35:28)

There is another enemy of the nails Ricardo did not mention.

It happened last Friday, during a field trip I chaperoned for my daughter's kindergarten. They spent the afternoon at a bowling alley, which is fine because I don't bowl. So after a few hours of screaming children dropping ten pound balls on the wood, I was ready to go. I couldn't resist the temptation of grabbing one of smaller balls-it was pink, I recall-and stroking it down the lane with a graceful motion. Of course it went in the alley and my thumbnail came off quite neatly and painlessly good 1/4" below the level of tip.

Well, maybe Ricardo did mention "carelessness" after all.



Sr. Martins -> RE: Lost Battle - Won Battle (May 11 2015 20:42:40)

I think the question here is not how to keep them in shape but how to grow them back.

Oils maybe? Vitamins? Gelatin?



Dudnote -> RE: Lost Battle - Won Battle (May 11 2015 21:24:37)

Thanks Ricardo

I always read your nail (& other) posts with great interest. Bad experience in the past with super glue and silk makes me somewhat scared to try what you suggest and the formaldehyde is more or less working for now - I'm not terribly convinced even small quantities of krazy glue will not have brittle results. I've yet to really understand how abanico or alzapua eat into the thumb nail just below the tip - I suppose my attack might be too side on. It would be great if someone someday put together a krazy glue & or proper filing video because somethings are just easier to digest with a visual demonstration - but I know that is asking a lot.



Ricardo -> RE: Lost Battle - Won Battle (May 11 2015 23:30:36)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria

There is another enemy of the nails Ricardo did not mention.

It happened last Friday, during a field trip I chaperoned for my daughter's kindergarten. They spent the afternoon at a bowling alley, which is fine because I don't bowl. So after a few hours of screaming children dropping ten pound balls on the wood, I was ready to go. I couldn't resist the temptation of grabbing one of smaller balls-it was pink, I recall-and stroking it down the lane with a graceful motion. Of course it went in the alley and my thumbnail came off quite neatly and painlessly good 1/4" below the level of tip.

Well, maybe Ricardo did mention "carelessness" after all.


Haha yes carelessness....you can't bowl lefty? I had this happen when I was first growing nails before I even got serious about flamenco and was forced to have nails for classical guitar class. Went bowling with friends, didn't feel a thing and was shocked when I saw the results. [:D]

quote:

I think the question here is not how to keep them in shape but how to grow them back.

Breath in and out, drink water, eat food...don't die. File EVERY DAY...I promise they grow and in two weeks, problem is over.



quote:

I always read your nail (& other) posts with great interest. Bad experience in the past with super glue and silk makes me somewhat scared to try what you suggest and the formaldehyde is more or less working for now - I'm not terribly convinced even small quantities of krazy glue will not have brittle results. I've yet to really understand how abanico or alzapua eat into the thumb nail just below the tip - I suppose my attack might be too side on. It would be great if someone someday put together a krazy glue & or proper filing video because somethings are just easier to digest with a visual demonstration - but I know that is asking a lot.


As an experiment, put some colored nail polish on, when you have a free day to not embarrass yourself. Play guitar as normal for an afternoon. Look at the polish. You can see where your rasguados are wearing your nails. A super nerd could take this info and apply glue or whatever to only the wear locations. I find it best to cover all the nail.

Formaldehyde is bad I think... I heard they use that on dead bodies. Krazy glue has no fermaldahyde. If the glue is FRESH...when it dries it flexes a bit...but you dont' really even WANT THAT...assuming you file your nails correctly. No flexing nails are needed with proper nail shape (file flat, gliding ramp etc). THe point of the glue is to have it wear off instead of thinning your nails down. As you wear down the glue from your playing spots (takes much longer that nail polish), you apply more as needed. DO NOT TRY TO REMOVE THE GLUE PREMATURELY AT ANY TIME....it will just come off from playing or with dead skin cells.

Ricardo



Sr. Martins -> RE: Lost Battle - Won Battle (May 11 2015 23:38:58)

quote:

Breath in and out, drink water, eat food...don't die. File EVERY DAY...I promise they grow and in two weeks, problem is over.


He says he has no nails, how can he file something that isn't there?


Formaldehyde in Mavala is way below the minimum tolerance. The product has formaldehyde but it isn't just made out of that as some people think. I use it once a month max and it's great, instant effect that will only go away when that part of the nail is gone. I apply only on the very tip and only when I feel the nails a bit bendy.... but I can go months without using it, I usually have pretty solid nails.


One thing that seems to have helped consistency and having a good finished nail tip is using cristal (or glass) files (but a good one). I just wet it, file the nails, wash it and it's done. Never had a splintered tip since I use it. It seems to not be wearing of either and costed only 5€.



Ricardo -> RE: Lost Battle - Won Battle (May 11 2015 23:43:53)

quote:

He says he has no nails, how can he file something that isn't there?


As says in his video notes, and I assume most people that use this description, they refer to PLAYING Nails, ie, the nails are so short they don't stick out over the tip. In his case he says they might be involved a very little bit or not at all, which means to me he simply has short nails, ready to file today (if they were mine or a students). If I were to attempt to switch lefty, I have these thick pads right now with nails cut short...but there is just a bit there that if I start filing now, in a couple weeks they will be ready, will take longer to grow than right hand because of the callouses but would still grow as normal. I would use glue too. (I won't be doing this though lol).

Enjoy your fermaldehyde tips, glad they work. [;)]



Sr. Martins -> RE: Lost Battle - Won Battle (May 12 2015 0:02:20)

quote:

Enjoy your fermaldehyde tips, glad they work.


It's just an extra boost to be used sparingly, NOT a substitute to CA practice. Even as a treatment, Mavala should only be used twice a week but I don't use it like that, never did.


Maybe I didn't get it right but he says he has no nails and that they've stopped growing... to me "no nails" usually means "nails, but just bit and before the tip of the flesh" but somehow I understood that this is a different situation.

Maybe Rojaros can clarify what happened to his nails.



etta -> RE: Lost Battle - Won Battle (May 12 2015 0:14:22)

The older I get, the shorter I like my nails and the more I like heavier women. Is there something metaphorical here?????



Sr. Martins -> RE: Lost Battle - Won Battle (May 12 2015 0:23:00)

quote:

The older I get, the shorter I like my nails and the more I like heavier women. Is there something metaphorical here?????


Maybe you don't like having chunks of women under your nails? [8D]



Dudnote -> RE: Lost Battle - Won Battle (May 12 2015 0:41:28)

So what's the theory behind filing stimulating nail growth? Sounds counter intuitive.



Sr. Martins -> RE: Lost Battle - Won Battle (May 12 2015 1:27:36)

quote:

So what's the theory behind filing stimulating nail growth? Sounds counter intuitive.


You were about to cut a body part, weren't you? [:D]



Dudnote -> RE: Lost Battle - Won Battle (May 12 2015 1:47:09)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sr. Martins

quote:

So what's the theory behind filing stimulating nail growth? Sounds counter intuitive.


You were about to cut a body part, weren't you? [:D]

You mean I should quit using a wood file for the job [;)]



Ricardo -> RE: Lost Battle - Won Battle (May 12 2015 23:33:58)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dudnote

So what's the theory behind filing stimulating nail growth? Sounds counter intuitive.


Well first, psychologically, you start understanding the importance of submiliters of nail material. So your nails will be growing in a more cared for environment. NURTURE vs nature. Second, the act of filing is doing more than simply removing material, it is POLISHING or shining the edge and removing imperfections which are what causes brittleness or snags or digs that can be the beginning of damage for the entire nail. Think of it like pruning a plant, or something else that grows steadily and needs care.

Ricardo



machopicasso -> RE: Lost Battle - Won Battle (May 13 2015 10:46:16)

quote:

While all the solutions weren't sitisfactory, my nails became nore and more frail and stopped to grow altogether,


Curiously, are you getting enough protein in your diet? When I switched to a higher protein diet for weightlifting, I noticed that my nails grew a lot faster.

That's something else you might want to explore, FWIW.



rombsix -> RE: Lost Battle - Won Battle (May 13 2015 12:21:46)

What support are you using? I see suction cups. [:D]



FredGuitarraOle -> RE: Lost Battle - Won Battle (May 13 2015 16:38:15)

Hi Rojaro, it has been sugested that you use Mavala nail hardener and similar stuff but I think you should try Mavala nutritive cream instead.

http://www.mavala.com/indexphp.php?id=8&prod_id=146

I had a lot of nail problems in my first years of guitar, my nails were as thin as a sheet of paper and very britle. I used to put superglue like Ricardo does but for 2 years now I have my nails all natural. It took a couple of months but eventually my nails started growing more healthy, more thick and more flexible. I just put this stuff on the cuticles almost every day before going to bed and that's it. It's a bit expensive but mine has lasted for more than 2 years and still has a lot left. Give it a try, it worked for me.



Sr. Martins -> RE: Lost Battle - Won Battle (May 13 2015 16:58:45)

quote:

Hi Rojaro, it has been sugested that you use Mavala nail hardener and similar stuff but I think you should try Mavala nutritive cream instead.


Using Mavala's hardener with no nails (or very short) would be a very dumb thing to do that would probably get you in trouble.



rojarosguitar -> RE: Lost Battle - Won Battle (May 13 2015 19:56:20)

Thanks everybody for a lot of sympathetitic contributions. I have been using Krazy glue, Mavala and few other oils and ointments, eating different vitamins, silicea, enough proteins, anything.

My nails are like these French cakes made from hundreds of foils or layers (millefeuille) and vanilla cream, so even if some Krazy glue is on top, the uppermost layer comes off and with time my nail got thin like silk paper...

Ricardo is of course right, there is some tenth of millimeter nail to file, but barely to be used to play.

Of course I don't mind, if they start to grow stronger, I'll see how I can integrate them again, but for the time being it's a huge relief not to fight anxiously.

Thanks everybody...



rojarosguitar -> RE: Lost Battle - Won Battle (May 14 2015 21:42:48)

quote:

What support are you using? I see suction cups.


just saw the question. It's De Oro standard support, but I removed the rubber part and use only the strap.



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