Ricardo -> RE: PdL an McLaughlin in Australia (Apr. 9 2015 16:40:42)
Cool, one of my favorite vids of these guys, we have seen and discussed it here in the past. This version has a bit higher resolution than the bootleg that was around years ago...at 3:04 you can see the wood grain on the side of the guitar which reveals it to be the SAME guitar that Paco has used on stage since then (1982) till he died last year. This was probably the original finish and you can see the golepeador peeling off at the top. THis was the first time he appears with this guitar as far as I know...the year before he used a different but similar looking one that replaced his stolen conde (famous entre dos aguas video). AFter the movie Carmen, which also features this guitar, he had the whole thing refinished in Red...not sure why...but later finished again several times until it was finally stripped of color and the inner rosette changed out.
As for the piece they play... the quintessential flamenco fusion where they use new kind of chords but the same compas as alegria or solea por buleria. Mclaughlin makes a boo boo during the scratch rhythm and comes in 3 beats early so it's out of compas there and Paco laughs at him...I get the feeling mclaughlin is clueless about that. Also, based on his picking of the rhythm part I can also tell he doesn't feel the internal compas either (I think he feels what would be count 3 and 9 as down beats where as Paco would feel 6 and 12 as the down beat)...also something at the end is off by 3 again but it is a different ending than the original recording which is clearly in compas throughout.
THere used to be an additional piece from this TV spot where they are joined by Al Dimeola for "Aspan"...in fact I still have that on my computer and it was what my source was for most of the "Aspan" tutorial. I hope a better resolution version also surfaces.
Ricardo
SephardRick -> RE: PdL an McLaughlin in Australia (Apr. 9 2015 18:01:01)
quote:
so it's out of compas there and Paco laughs at him...I get the feeling mclaughlin is clueless about that. Also, based on his picking of the rhythm part I can also tell he doesn't feel the internal compas either
Interesting Ricardo...The out of compas sound does get your attention.
I love Mahavishnu John McLaughlin, but it's a good example of flamenco is more disciplined than fusion free form guitarists were used to at the time. As good of a jazz player JM is, playing with PDL you had to watch your P's and Q's. I admire any professional, whose pulled up a chair next to PDL. No doubt an object lesson not soon forgotten. Always a treat seeing these two together:))
Filip -> RE: PdL an McLaughlin in Australia (Apr. 9 2015 18:23:20)
Ricardo, you mean that the guitar that Paco plays on this video is the same as the one he played on his last tours, and is the same as the one he played on the 1996 DVD (Jazztage)?
tk -> RE: PdL an McLaughlin in Australia (Apr. 9 2015 18:58:16)
quote:
Cool, one of my favorite vids of these guys, we have seen and discussed it here in the past. This version has a bit higher resolution than the bootleg that was around years ago...at 3:04 you can see the wood grain on the side of the guitar which reveals it to be the SAME guitar that Paco has used on stage since then (1982) till he died last year. This was probably the original finish and you can see the golepeador peeling off at the top. THis was the first time he appears with this guitar as far as I know...the year before he used a different but similar looking one that replaced his stolen conde (famous entre dos aguas video). AFter the movie Carmen, which also features this guitar, he had the whole thing refinished in Red...not sure why...but later finished again several times until it was finally stripped of color and the inner rosette changed out.
As for the piece they play... the quintessential flamenco fusion where they use new kind of chords but the same compas as alegria or solea por buleria. Mclaughlin makes a boo boo during the scratch rhythm and comes in 3 beats early so it's out of compas there and Paco laughs at him...I get the feeling mclaughlin is clueless about that. Also, based on his picking of the rhythm part I can also tell he doesn't feel the internal compas either (I think he feels what would be count 3 and 9 as down beats where as Paco would feel 6 and 12 as the down beat)...also something at the end is off by 3 again but it is a different ending than the original recording which is clearly in compas throughout.
THere used to be an additional piece from this TV spot where they are joined by Al Dimeola for "Aspan"...in fact I still have that on my computer and it was what my source was for most of the "Aspan" tutorial. I hope a better resolution version also surfaces.
Ricardo
______________
Ricardo do you know if anyone has the tabs for this piece? At least the first part?
Ruphus -> RE: PdL an McLaughlin in Australia (Apr. 9 2015 21:13:07)
Almost as if Caravaggio and Warhole were trying to paint something together. With Warhole naturally missing out on what it takes.
What an admirable self-confidence McLaughlin had. I think the one album I got of his must be the most boring venyl I ever bought, already back then when I was accepting almost anything on guitar. I remember playing it for a while and trying to find something in it. It was just empty nudling while trying to let it appear virtuoso.
Irony how such a player helped Paco with becoming more reknown.
Ruphus
Dudnote -> RE: PdL an McLaughlin in Australia (Apr. 9 2015 23:57:33)
It's alegrias / SxB!! Hell, I never twigged [sm=rolleyes.gif]
Respect to JM for only being 1/4 compass out on one occasion. I'd have been X/666 compasses out (where X is some random number that shifts and jumps) though out the whole thing [:D]
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ruphus
Almost as if Caravaggio and Warhole were trying to paint something together. With Warhole naturally missing out on what it takes.
What an admirable self-confidence McLaughlin had. I think the one album I got of his must be the most boring venyl I ever bought, already back then when I was accepting almost anything on guitar. I remember playing it for a while and trying to find something in it. It was just empty nudling while trying to let it appear virtuoso.
Irony how such a player helped Paco with becoming more reknown.
Ruphus
Too bad Ruphus you didn't have a different album. I had a tape copy of My Goal's Beyond and it was like nothing else I was hearing around me at the time. A firm favourite of old.
Ruphus -> RE: PdL and McLaughlin in Australia (Apr. 10 2015 8:55:20)
Should there come an opportunity of checking out albums I will search this thread to find back the title "My Goal´s Beyond" and see what gives. Thanks for the pointer.
Ruphus
Ricardo -> RE: PdL an McLaughlin in Australia (Apr. 10 2015 18:18:00)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Filip
Ricardo, you mean that the guitar that Paco plays on this video is the same as the one he played on his last tours, and is the same as the one he played on the 1996 DVD (Jazztage)?
Precisely.
Ruphus,
Mclaughlin has moments that sure are boring and indulgent...and others that are sublime. THe energy and depth of his improvisations in this piece are about as good as it gets for me...if the free meter "alap" bores you, skip to the 9/4 rhythmic section at 5:50 till the end:
Ruphus -> RE: PdL and McLaughlin in Australia (Apr. 10 2015 20:53:50)
Thanks for the links, Ricardo.
Unfortunately, they don´t impress me still though.
Back then when sessions were more common on private parties, I witnessed spontaneous improvisations that were often times musically more versatile than McLaughlin´s technical more or less one trick pony. - Admittedly, for most cases with less BPM however. Played by artists with no big names, glory and admission fees.
And while the first example seems in synch, the piano & guitar example as well is less harmonic than comparable private sessions and also less synchronous than some.
I don´t see something extra ordinary in there. McLaughlin to my understanding had his way because of the celebrated tolerance and embracing of whatever there used to come in the free style chamber of the eighties. (Boy, what stuff used to be shipped over to Germany´s live caverns at that time! Guys randomly beating their instruments in the name of "Free Jazz". Kakophonies that were embraced by the public rather as symbol of a new anticipated freedom -and deemed intellectuality- than anything.)
I prefer music that tickles my diaphragm with notes in complimenting accordance to definit harmonic structure. (Unfortunately I can´t upload an example of Jazz here.) Filling in notes more or less randomly has no big attraction to me.
Ruphus
tk -> RE: PdL and McLaughlin in Australia (Apr. 12 2015 1:37:06)
Does anyone have tabs for this?
rombsix -> RE: PdL and McLaughlin in Australia (Apr. 12 2015 2:14:20)
minorthang -> RE: PdL and McLaughlin in Australia (Apr. 12 2015 6:52:54)
Mclaughin can play some great straight ahead jazz his take on my favorite things i feel is good and well up there
SephardRick -> RE: PdL an McLaughlin in Australia (Apr. 12 2015 16:59:54)
Ricardo,
Speaking of PDL and his tone to die for Conde collection...
The one in this clip is really rich in harmonics. Any information on it? PDL is playing Granaina in 1974.
Filip -> RE: PdL and McLaughlin in Australia (Apr. 12 2015 21:01:01)
I had no idea it's the same guitar.
Ricardo -> RE: PdL an McLaughlin in Australia (Apr. 13 2015 17:18:07)
quote:
ORIGINAL: SephardRick
Ricardo,
Speaking of PDL and his tone to die for Conde collection...
The one in this clip is really rich in harmonics. Any information on it? PDL is playing Granaina in 1974.
This was his favorite guitar, not sure the year of it. He has experimented with different strings a lot and gotten very differing results tone wise. For example I am pretty sure he used this for that black and white video where he plays panaderos etc, and the tone is pretty dry and weak harmonically compared to this clip (could be the bridge height too)...this guitar gets a more full and rich tone on his live in Teatro Real, and later Almoraima...but alot has to do with recording issues (mics and mic placement, eq etc)....there are some clips of his famous Entre dos Aguas where one scene is intercut with a different performance on TV (tesoros program and also La Busqueda) and the tonal difference is striking as the scene changes...though it is the same guitar.
Not sure his first recording with this...I am thinking 1970 (El Mundo disc with Pepe and dancer) or perhaps Recital (with 6 guitars but it's hard to hear), or maybe Duende...I am not sure but around that time he started using it. I know it is his favorite because he said so in an interview with the guitar trio (Guitar Player March 1981), where he sadly admits it was stolen from his car the previous year!!! So the last recordings he made were some tracks of the Manuel de Falla disc (I read he used a Lorenzo Alvarez for what I assume are the more classical sounding tracks) and we see it's last tour with Mclaughlin and Larry Coryell in "Meeting of the Spirits" 1979.
It's out there somewhere, perhaps it will surface some day? The rosewood pattern makes it easy to identify. I find it crazy that the favorite instruments of both Paco and Manolo Sanlucar were stolen but are residing in their guitar cases somewhere in this world, one day to be discovered!
tk -> RE: PdL an McLaughlin in Australia (Apr. 13 2015 17:25:29)
The sound of this guitars amazing. There is no BS in the sound of this guitar. Very full, dry and powerful. I can see why it was his favorite
Ricardo -> RE: PdL an McLaughlin in Australia (Apr. 13 2015 17:32:03)
And since we are on subject of Paco's guitars....here was his first favorite negra (I assume)...it's got some interesting details that I identified it with, the tie block for one is quite unique if you look close, I have not seen another conde with that exact style. (short sides like the blancas had, but a skinny inner rectangle like modern Condes use now). The tone is deep and hollow/woody in the basses compared to his later favorite negras, but with a bright metallic treble sound. The recordings I believe he used it for are Fabulosa, the Festival Flamenco Gitano 1 and 3 discs, the Niño Ricardo tribute Alegria, etc. Here are some videos:
I don't know why he didn't bring back into stage use after his other guitar was stolen...I notice he tended to tune it sharp...so perhaps the tension was too low for his taste? Just conjecture.
SephardRick -> RE: PdL an McLaughlin in Australia (Apr. 13 2015 21:40:51)
Interesting Ricardo...
I never noticed the tie block unique features before. Guess I was too busy studying PDL hands.
On the stolen guitars - It does make you wonder where they ended up. I would like to think in the hands of some collector. Unfortunately, stolen guitars have a history of ending up in most neglectful hands. Still, hope springs eternal. Maybe than will go up for auction one day.
