Cordoba Torres, why does this irritate me so much??? (Full Version)

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Leñador -> Cordoba Torres, why does this irritate me so much??? (Mar. 23 2015 20:36:14)

Cordoba has started a "masters series" of guitars where they are going to use the name of Torres, Hauser, Reyes, and Rodrigues to market their instruments.....on the heals of the Paco instrument this is beginning to irritate me and feel a bit like Cordoba is using names within the public domain to help market their product.......

http://www.guitarsalon.com/store/p4725-cordoba-guitars-master-series-torres.html




Sr. Martins -> RE: Cordoba Torres, why does this irritate me so much??? (Mar. 23 2015 20:40:39)

That Paco guitar looked terrible.

Don't worry, they might be digging their own grave. If not, who cares anyway? [:D]




bernd -> RE: Cordoba Torres, why does this irritate me so much??? (Mar. 23 2015 21:23:25)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sr. Martins

Don't worry, they might be digging their own grave.

Surely not. It´s nothing new to use names like Hauser and Torres. Lots of luthiers around the world do it to build their version of a Hauser or Torres construction. The same is done with names of Santos Hernández and Marcelo Barbero with flamencas. Have you ever played one of these Cordoba Master guitars? I did. And I asked Tim Miklaucic for the reason of this series. The idea is to give the guitarist feeling of the characteristic of these guitars at an affordable price. I´ve played them all 2 years ago at the Frankfurt Musikmesse. They definitely meet the pretension, except the Reyes model (that I played that time). The Reyes model is truly a very good flamenca, but not a Reyes. Imho nobody can make Reyes instead of Reyes himself.

Cordoba is going to present this master series the 3rd year at Frankfurt Musikmesse. If it were a flop, they wouldn´t promote it anymore. No one features a lousy nag.




Leñador -> RE: Cordoba Torres, why does this irritate me so much??? (Mar. 23 2015 21:42:22)

I get when a luthier does a "copy" of the masters but I wouldn't expect Cordoba to do a reasonable job at this.....Kinda feels to me like McDonalds coming out with a "Ruths Chris Burger"(famous high end steak joint in the states). I may be passing judgement too quickly....I may head down to Guitar Salon and make my own judgements.....Too bad they wont let me play their real Torres to compare! [:@] lol




rombsix -> RE: Cordoba Torres, why does this irritate me so much??? (Mar. 23 2015 21:47:24)

I like my Cordoba GK Studio Negra. [:D]




tele -> RE: Cordoba Torres, why does this irritate me so much??? (Mar. 23 2015 21:55:12)

I think it's a nice idea all the way except for using the luthiers headstock. Most people can't afford real reyes or other expensive luthiers guitar but here we have guitars made to the same plans, the only thing will be that how much really do they sound alike to a real reyes for example. Anyway the originals are overpriced




guitarbuddha -> RE: Cordoba Torres, why does this irritate me so much??? (Mar. 23 2015 22:08:20)

Come now, you know damn well why it irritates you so much.

You can get yourself a nice jacket as well as some razors. This looks quite snappy no ?



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Sr. Martins -> RE: Cordoba Torres, why does this irritate me so much??? (Mar. 23 2015 23:19:33)

My comment was solely based on the looks of the Paco guitar.

If they all end up being that fugly, they better sound really good. [:D]




Leñador -> RE: Cordoba Torres, why does this irritate me so much??? (Mar. 23 2015 23:24:20)

quote:

I like my Cordoba GK Studio Negra.

That one doesn't bother me. [:D]

Is Walter Matthau related to Sabicas???? lolol




keith -> RE: Cordoba Torres, why does this irritate me so much??? (Mar. 24 2015 11:53:03)

the cordoba master series pre-dates the death of paco de lucia and in many ways are really no different than the 1001 guitars based on the 51 barbero--the guitars are homages to the master. the factory cordoba guitar, retro-named to honor paco, is tacky at best.




Leñador -> RE: Cordoba Torres, why does this irritate me so much??? (Mar. 24 2015 12:53:37)

Alright, so Im The only one it irritates lol I'll be open minds when I try it but it just feels like why would I drop that kind of money on a cordoba.....I have a cheap lil cordoba and it's great. I feel like that's what cordoba does, decent quality cheap instruments, if I had over 1k to spend I'd stop looking at cordobas....




keith -> RE: Cordoba Torres, why does this irritate me so much??? (Mar. 24 2015 13:05:56)

Lenador--I agree, it would be difficult to pay the money Cordoba is asking but if the guitar is worth the money I might consider it. That said, my first consideration would be a guitar built by an independent luthier or used Ramirez or similar old brand.




estebanana -> RE: Cordoba Torres, why does this irritate me so much??? (Mar. 24 2015 13:39:28)

quote:

Is Walter Matthau related to Sabicas???? lolol


Best, moast intelligeent and foonyist Foro comment in the LAST FIVE YEARS.

btw, it irritates me too, like crotch rot on a hot summer day at a construction site with a pissed off inspector who has an over sized clipboard and pocket of sharpened pencils.




Leñador -> RE: Cordoba Torres, why does this irritate me so much??? (Mar. 24 2015 13:46:50)

quote:

btw, it irritates me too, like crotch rot on a hot summer day at a construction site with a pissed off inspector who has an over sized clipboard and pocket of sharpened pencils.

Hahaha you know my pain!!! The inspectors in Beverly Hills have badges, they think they're GD cops!




ToddK -> RE: Cordoba Torres, why does this irritate me so much??? (Mar. 24 2015 15:10:58)

I was offered a job doing demonstrations for Cordoba some time ago,
and i declined. Their guitars are awful.




Ricardo -> RE: Cordoba Torres, why does this irritate me so much??? (Mar. 24 2015 16:06:20)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leñador

I get when a luthier does a "copy" of the masters but I wouldn't expect Cordoba to do a reasonable job at this.....Kinda feels to me like McDonalds coming out with a "Ruths Chris Burger"(famous high end steak joint in the states). I may be passing judgement too quickly....I may head down to Guitar Salon and make my own judgements.....Too bad they wont let me play their real Torres to compare! [:@] lol


I played em at the NAMM show last year. Not bad, but not good either. The best guitar there (At namm) was Kenny Hill Reyes model...much better than the cordoba version mainly due to the finish work (Hill guitar had a punchy open sound unlike the stiff cordoba version). He admitted his company was making all the "master series" jobs for Cordoba. The price difference was $2000 here (hill more expensive and better quality)...so I asked why didn't they do the finish work...it was obviously different...Mr. hill said it was "too expensive" to have em french polished nice etc. What a shame. I asked Hill if he had any other flamenco models he said yes they look different were essential the same plan and working model...so only the headstock and rosette were different.

That being the working model that everyone LOVES TO HATE...the BLACKSHEAR REYES PLAN!!!! [:D][:D][:D][:D]

Dingaling dong! lets hear it! [sm=Smiley Guitar.gif]




Miguel de Maria -> RE: Cordoba Torres, why does this irritate me so much??? (Mar. 24 2015 16:12:16)

I've never played a high end Cordoba guitar. When you can get custom hand-made instruments from known luthiers, what would be the point? I use my FCWE for gigs and it has been the most faithful and useful thing for me. I don't humidify it, I've played it anywhere from 30-100 F weather, it's been in Seattle and Nogales, I've dropped it twice, it doesn't feed back unless I make it do so, I get compliments on its looks and sound from well-meaning folk all the time. Is it true that Cordoba is more of a conglomeration of various entities, shops, factories under the umbrella of the corporate name? Not really a cohesive thing like "Gibson" for example.




Ricardo -> RE: Cordoba Torres, why does this irritate me so much??? (Mar. 24 2015 16:18:35)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria

I've never played a high end Cordoba guitar. When you can get custom hand-made instruments from known luthiers, what would be the point? I use my FCWE for gigs and it has been the most faithful and useful thing for me. I don't humidify it, I've played it anywhere from 30-100 F weather, it's been in Seattle and Nogales, I've dropped it twice, it doesn't feed back unless I make it do so, I get compliments on its looks and sound from well-meaning folk all the time. Is it true that Cordoba is more of a conglomeration of various entities, shops, factories under the umbrella of the corporate name? Not really a cohesive thing like "Gibson" for example.



pretty sure most of their stuff is outsourced from Valencia...ie alhambra esteve etc...the expensive ones from USA...Mr. Hill it seems.




estebanana -> RE: Cordoba Torres, why does this irritate me so much??? (Mar. 24 2015 22:30:05)

quote:

That being the working model that everyone LOVES TO HATE...the BLACKSHEAR REYES PLAN!!!!

Dingaling dong! lets hear it!


If you remember I faced the Inquisition and recanted my former position in brilliant auto de fe. I don't hate the Reyes plan, just badly made guitars.

Plans don't kill people, people kill people AND YOU CAN PRY MY PLAN FROM MY COLD DEAD HAND!

___________________________________________

I think the Cordoba lines are built so they don't have structural failure, they are robust and you can be tough on them and they don't break. Along with that comes less intimate responsiveness and personal detail in look and sound. They are what they are. they fill a niche.

I had a guy who I did repair work for in CA. he was going through a divorce, only he did not realize it for about five years. During that time he played Cordobas and instead of hitting his wife he used slam the guitar into a microphone or drop it on stage after a show, or smash it in the car door ect. He went through two of them, bringing them to me every six months or so with another boo-boo. He broke the neck in half in a car door and I spline jointed it back together and inlaid a piece of ebony on top of the splice just to remind him where he broke the guitar. Jason McGuire just about broke his ribs laughing when I showed it to him one day. Once glued the back together after a microphone pierced it like a missile. The hole was almost fist sized.

I stitched them back together and cleated them, did bowel resections and drained sutures when things got infected. I would call it MASH surgery, and think of myself as Hawkeye Pierce fitting the parts of a blown up infantry man back together after a gung-ho jerky captain sent him into a firefight. Then the guy would come and pay in cash and ask how much for me to build him a cutaway. I always said oh $5000.00 to discourage him.

We had history, he bought a guitar from me one day when I needed rent money a long time ago. I've told this story before, but he was a calculating son of a bitch and waited until the last day of the month to seal the deal. He talk me down because I was broke and he basically knew it and leveraged it because I had to pay rent. He got the guitar, Maple Torres pattern, pegs with ivory inlays, cute, for significantly less then I wanted, but the rent was payed.

Later he turned around a sold it for a profit after he assured me he would keep it and promote me. Well I saw him in a bar at a show and he bragged how he had sold it, to my face. A couple friends had to step between he and I as I was about to punch him.

After I calmed down, he asked me this question: "So will you build me a cutaway?" My friends looked at me like it's not worth it, just be cool. So I was cool, I replied, "No I won't build you a cutaway, but there is a very nice Cordoba for you at Guitar Center that suits your budget." He walked off, and someone bought me a beer.

Months later he begins to show up at the shop with battered Cordobas and I repair them and charge him an extra 30%, because no one else will deal with him. Everyone felt among my friends I was justified in getting a higher repair fee. One called it "The **** tax". Eventually he got a divorce and I hope he stopped beating his guitars.




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