methodo del flamenco Beginner(isn) (Full Version)

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minorthang -> methodo del flamenco Beginner(isn) (Feb. 15 2015 8:52:57)

Recently picked up a few books aimed at beginner or low intermediate

David Leiva 1guittra flamenca desde el compas

and the total flamenco guitarista j.pascual

firstly I'm not a pro player, guitar was put down for years and have played other styles .

anyhows for a lower level player have found the books really useful on gaining an insight to the art of flamenco - and intruding basic palos with just enough material too get in too the lower intermediate level.

i think that j pascual offer some nice ideas for the repertoire in the book, and d Leiva offers a little more information on theory and scale positions - also he has some mp4s on the cd showing the techniques as well as all examples played in mp3 and in spainish and english

all in all cheap books with good information, and questions happy to answer




bernd -> RE: methodo del flamenco Beginner(isn) (Feb. 15 2015 12:56:29)

With David Leiva you pay a guitarist who wasn´t able to tune his guitar for tutorial books. If you want to support that, then buy it. I don´t support such an unprofessional work.

I´d rather chose Oscar Herrero or José Manuel Montoya.



minorthang -> RE: methodo del flamenco Beginner(isn) (Feb. 15 2015 13:40:18)

actually bernd i was thinking that - why though --i mean maybe he had too much sherry before recording ?

also he advertises his guitar ? him or guitar



bernd -> RE: methodo del flamenco Beginner(isn) (Feb. 15 2015 15:20:54)

I bought one of his book for acompañar el cante por soleá. I thought I would get something that explains structure and things that deal with it. There was just a transcription of the song melody incl the text and another one of the guitar. That´s all, thrown out money! For that I didn´t need to spend money for a book. To me it seems he´s quite busy on drinking cherry before finishing a properly work. So I´m not really convinced.



Joana -> RE: methodo del flamenco Beginner(isn) (Feb. 17 2015 23:57:25)

I like the books/cds from Juan Martin. I have Solo Flamencos Vol 1 and 2. He has a very relaxed teaching style. I am having trouble finding the introduction book,
Juan Martin’s Guitar Method El Arte Flamenco de la Guitarra . Amazon (USA) has it for > $100 [:-] Does anyone know if it is still published or is it out of print?

I love J. Pascual's book, I have been a fan of his for years and it is great that he
published a flamenco guitar book.

Have fun with your guitar lessons!



flyhere -> [Deleted] (Feb. 18 2015 0:27:08)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Feb. 21 2015 22:53:17



minorthang -> RE: methodo del flamenco Beginner(isn) (Feb. 18 2015 6:50:38)

100$$ wow thats a lot ,

saw this for you its in UK- but surely post not too much

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Juan-Martin-Guitar-Method-Learn-to-Play-Flamenco-Spanish-Music-Book-CD-/160872656035?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2574c1eca3

i agree its a good book some clear nice info (a few people id meet in the past not keen on jan martin -- but seem great to me -- and i remember see other post he was playing with rafael requeni

enjoy playing



guitarbuddha -> RE: methodo del flamenco Beginner(isn) (Feb. 18 2015 16:45:00)

quote:

ORIGINAL: minorthang
(a few people id meet in the past not keen on jan martin -- but seem great to me -- and i remember see other post he was playing with rafael requeni

enjoy playing



An almost perfect example of Mark Twain's observation;

'A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.'

D.



minorthang -> RE: methodo del flamenco Beginner(isn) (Feb. 18 2015 18:02:48)

quote:

A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.


briiliant observation guitarbuddha !!



Joana -> RE: methodo del flamenco Beginner(isn) (Feb. 18 2015 23:26:20)

Thank you flyhere. I appreciate your offer, but I would like to find a print copy with the CDs if available. I will keep searching - I will check with my local music store and
see if they have any leads. With the snow still stacking up here, I will have extra time for
lessons. Glad to know you find the book informative and useful.



Joana -> RE: methodo del flamenco Beginner(isn) (Feb. 18 2015 23:30:24)

Thanks for starting this thread minorthang..appreciate sharing good books and cds for beginner students. Best wishes with your flamenco guitar studies!



flyhere -> [Deleted] (Feb. 19 2015 18:43:53)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Feb. 21 2015 22:53:32



Sr. Martins -> RE: methodo del flamenco Beginner(isn) (Feb. 19 2015 19:03:01)

quote:

I meant there's a website where you can download out-of-print stuff but you have to join and pay them a subscription.


If you're getting material that's not coming from the "original source", why pay the middleman?

You can get pretty much any of that old material in pdf + mp3 for free... including that one that someone said it's going for 100.



flyhere -> [Deleted] (Feb. 19 2015 19:52:59)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Feb. 21 2015 22:53:01



payaso -> RE: methodo del flamenco Beginner(isn) (Feb. 20 2015 15:46:53)

Juan Martín's method El Arte is still in print and available from his website Flamencovision.com.
It's sad to see Foro members being encouraged to download illegal copies of copyrighted material for free.



Sr. Martins -> RE: methodo del flamenco Beginner(isn) (Feb. 20 2015 16:31:15)

So far I can't see any encouragement towards that.



bernd -> RE: methodo del flamenco Beginner(isn) (Feb. 20 2015 18:24:05)

quote:

It's sad to see Foro members being encouraged to download illegal copies of copyrighted material for free.


This needs to be seen relatively. The reason are different the laws of copyright in different countries. Here in Germany, as well as in Austria and Switzerland, we have the most painful copyright law all over the world. Forum webmasters risk a call to order incl to sign a cease and desist letter and has to pay the bill of the lawyer, if a forum member has posted a link to a illegal (German law!) download ressource who cannot be detected via IP adress. All German classical guitar forums were closed by their webmasters in order to this reason. Some of them received letters by lawyers, others feared to get a call to order, so they stopped running their forums.

In USA there doesn´t exist such hard protection of copyright. Anything for learning and non-commercial intention can be downloaded for free. But as being a German I can´t download from an american download website as long as I am in Germany. If such servers are monitored, then there is a high risk to receive a lawyer´s note. The German GEMA as authors right exploiters very often brings action at law against Youtube. As a result many American videos are blocked for German visitors.

So there are different point of view about to decide if something is illegal or not.



timoteo -> RE: methodo del flamenco Beginner(isn) (Feb. 20 2015 19:48:10)

quote:

Pdf + Mp3 for free of course is the best way if you can find them, that's how I got mine.

Yes, the five-finger discount is always cheaper than buying retail.

I agree with payaso here - it's sad that the musicians and wanna-be musicians and music lovers who frequent this forum condone pirating music, hurting other musicians for their own gain. We've all heard all the excuses: (whine whine) it's too expensive, it's not sold in stores, I can't find it anywhere else, everyone else does it, if it were illegal the website would have been shut down, I'm just a student I can't afford it, the music industry is behind the times and not responsive to what the consumer needs, only the guy who posted it is doing something wrong not me or the website that hosts it, etc etc. Dress it up however you like to make yourself feel comfortable, but it's still stealing. If you're going to steal at least have some integrity and admit it.

As soon as I saw payaso's comment I knew that inevitably everyone would jump on him with their rationalizations and justifications in defense of stealing. So it begins.

quote:

So far I can't see any encouragement towards that.

You really see no encouragement here?

Q: Where can I get this copyrighted materiel?
A: (Sr. Martins) You can download it for free.
A: (flyhere) You can download it for free.

So you were simply making an observation that it was available to download for free, as an alternative to the previous posts saying it was expensive, but in no way did that serve as a suggestion to actually download it without paying for it? In no way did it suggest that this practice was acceptable and preferred?

quote:

In USA ... Anything for learning and non-commercial intention can be downloaded for free.

Simply not true. Why ever pay for a college textbook if that's the case? (Why even publish a college textbook if nobody has to pay for it?)

"Fair use" of copyrighted material does not extend to making a complete copy of the book and CD and sharing it with everyone else in the world.



Sr. Martins -> RE: methodo del flamenco Beginner(isn) (Feb. 20 2015 20:27:58)

Who encouraged you to be a liar?



timoteo -> RE: methodo del flamenco Beginner(isn) (Feb. 20 2015 21:24:40)

So I guess that maybe you're trying to say that a person's choices are his own, and for example the drug dealer bears no moral or ethical responsibility for the choices of the addict who dies from an overdose. Hey, you're just a legitimate businessman offering a product, what the customer does with the product is his problem. The dealer doesn't "encourage" the addict either, by your definition, and I guess the "innocent" third-party who introduces the addict to the dealer isn't doing any encouraging either.

BTW, from m-w.com:
verb en·cour·age
to make (something) more appealing or more likely to happen

Let's see, $100 vs. free. Free sounds more appealing to me. Play with semantics all you want, but there WAS some encouraging done in the previous comments.

But congrats on phrasing your rebuttal in such an obtuse manner that you can always fall back on blaming others for misinterpreting you.



guitarbuddha -> RE: methodo del flamenco Beginner(isn) (Feb. 20 2015 21:53:34)

quote:

ORIGINAL: timoteo



But congrats on phrasing your rebuttal in such an obtuse manner that you can always fall back on blaming others for misinterpreting you.



[8|]

And congratulations to you too.

Assuredly if all foro contributors were native English speakers the above would set the bar for not only grammar but also for rhetorical style.

Seriously though I would humbly suggest that Sr Martin bookshelves are as burdensome as his hard drives are. Furthermore I propose that if he could lend you or another member a physical copy of the book he would.

Whether he sold you a physical copy second hand or simply lent it to you the financial gain to both the publisher and the author would be the same as for online sharing, NIL.

I like the 'suck it and see' approach, a good book is worth owning.

Whether or not the audio files for the Juan Martin method are worth owning ... is arguable. The accumulation of the traditional material and the compositions of Ramon Montoya, Diego del Gastor and countless others (on who's work the book in question is so obviously based) would be a struggle as they have never been adequately copyrighted.


This last fact has assuredly not escaped Sr (Juan) Martin's notice. It should not escape our notice.

D.



Pgh_flamenco -> RE: methodo del flamenco Beginner(isn) (Feb. 20 2015 23:01:56)

quote:

But congrats on phrasing your rebuttal in such an obtuse manner that you can always fall back on blaming others for misinterpreting you.


So true and you may have noticed that Sr. Martin is too self-deceptive to engage in debate in a meaningful way.



guitarbuddha -> RE: methodo del flamenco Beginner(isn) (Feb. 20 2015 23:09:27)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pgh_flamenco

Sr. Martin is too self-deceptive to engage in debate in a meaningful way.


Ah yes, motivation should always be at the forefront of one's mind before entering a debate.

Disingenuous is a good word. Self-deceptive is a term whose clumsiness should set off alarm bells, and not just for the reader.

D



Sr. Martins -> RE: methodo del flamenco Beginner(isn) (Feb. 20 2015 23:17:27)

Always the same bunch of losers.

If I say "there's war out there", am I encouraging anyone to fight or stating a fact?

At most I encouraged people not to support the shady internet middleman who SELL pirated stuff. I dont care about what you download and I will never encourage piracy. I suspect you people just see black and white.



Pgh_flamenco -> RE: methodo del flamenco Beginner(isn) (Feb. 20 2015 23:49:52)

Sr Martin, there is a clear pattern to your behavior on this forum.

You consistently devalue other peoples’ opinions with little concern as to how your comments might affect them emotionally.

You presume that you are always right.

Your constant ad hominem statements show a lack of empathy and more importantly critical thinking skills. This is also proof that you can’t admit you are wrong.

Does the term narcissistic personality mean anything to you? You should look it up as most likely it applies to you.

Whether you agree or not--or whether you are simply incapable of understanding--you should always remember that YOUR PRESUMED SUPERIORITY IS NOT PROOF THAT YOU ARE RIGHT.

Also, you should at least realize that everyone is not as impressed with you as you obviously are.



bernd -> RE: methodo del flamenco Beginner(isn) (Feb. 21 2015 7:06:09)

20 years ago while I was begining to learn flamenco, sometimes I had to save money to buy music books, flamenco videos etc. At that time there was no fast internet. So a download would take lots of hours what really makes no fun. I´m quite proud to have originals that are completely out of print e. g. the Gendai flamenco edition and many others. One is a book of the official transcription of Paco de Lucía. That´s still available, but mine has personal edication by Ramón de Algeciras.

Some of the Encuentro videos I couldn´t afford to buy new. So I bought them second hand for half of the price. To me it makes more fun to have a clean official original issue instead of something anyone could have just by download.



bernd -> RE: methodo del flamenco Beginner(isn) (Feb. 21 2015 7:38:39)

Oscar Herrero offers 20 % discount untill 28 Febuary on his new online store. Use this code: OHE20



Escribano -> RE: methodo del flamenco Beginner(isn) (Feb. 21 2015 8:25:07)

I see no encouragement (just a couple of opinions), nor a link to illegal copyrighted material. I do see some sniping that I would ask is toned down and I am locking this thread. The original point has been made.



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