Bulerias Palmas Variations (as requested by Chester) (Full Version)

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Leñador -> Bulerias Palmas Variations (as requested by Chester) (Jan. 31 2015 0:49:03)

Here's the bulerias palmas variations I mentioned in the "bulerias in 6" thread.
These are really meant to play off the guitarist and cantaor who set the feel and you react. AND these are super basic cus I suck at palmas.
Enjoy!
The names are
Seguido
Antiguo (think I did this wrong, you don't need your foot on 4...)
Al Golpe
Vals (Walts)
Basé




rombsix -> RE: Bulerias Palmas Variations (as requested by Chester) (Jan. 31 2015 3:53:24)

quote:

AND these are super basic cus I suck at palmas.


[:D]



guitarbuddha -> RE: Bulerias Palmas Variations (as requested by Chester) (Jan. 31 2015 13:18:42)

Len this is absolutely the spirit this place needs and has somehow lost.

Ole !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We don't need to all be perfect just decent and sharing.

D.



Sr. Martins -> RE: Bulerias Palmas Variations (as requested by Chester) (Jan. 31 2015 13:30:59)

Always a pleasure to kneel before such a creator.

[sm=Smiley Guitar.gif]



Leñador -> RE: Bulerias Palmas Variations (as requested by Chester) (Jan. 31 2015 14:15:54)

Thanks Buddha!

I'm a Kreator Rui! Lolol \m/



chester -> RE: Bulerias Palmas Variations (as requested by Chester) (Feb. 1 2015 3:52:43)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leñador
Seguido:
Foot CLAP clap CLAP clap clap
Antiguo:
Foot clap clap foot clap clap
Al golpe:
CLAP clap clap foot CLAP foot
Waltz:
Foot/CLAP clap clap foot/CLAP clap clap
Basé:
Foot CLAP clap CLAP clap clap foot CLAP CLAP foot CLAP CLAP (basically 6 of seguido and 6 of al golpe)




Nice man, thanks! I edited it to include the notation (oh no! theory!) [:D]

It would be awesome to have five buttons that we can press to turn each variation on/off so we could hear how they sound together.



Neotriz -> RE: Bulerias Palmas Variations (as requested by Chester) (Feb. 1 2015 5:13:29)

Did Luis taught you these ? [:D]



Leñador -> RE: Bulerias Palmas Variations (as requested by Chester) (Feb. 1 2015 7:04:36)

@chester - I've got 'em kinda set up like that in garage band to practice to![:D]

@Neotriz - I think he taught them to the person that taught them to me. [:D]



mecmachin -> RE: Bulerias Palmas Variations (as requested by Chester) (Feb. 1 2015 20:12:26)

Lenador,

thank you for these videos.
Thanks Chester for putting them togehter with Lenador's patterns.

I am still struggling with the "al golpe".
I wonder how it fits into the compas.

May I suppose that all the patters start at 12/6?

I have seen people do a seguido pattern with a foot 12-2-4, and going on mostly in this "binary" scheme. Or lsimply on 12 as you do.

But your "al golpe" feel has the foot on 3 and 5, so I really wonder whether it is in place like this (your foot going on 12/6) or if it isn't shifted in some way in this 6 beat sequence.

Sorry, don't know much about palmas, only try to generalize a bit.



Leñador -> RE: Bulerias Palmas Variations (as requested by Chester) (Feb. 1 2015 22:05:56)

When I was taught them I was told to forget the 12 beat pattern, it's all 6'a. 12 is now 1 essentially. With that in mind Al Golpe is:
1 2 3 4 5 6 repeat. The foot is not so important.
Translated to 12, accent on 12 and 4 and 6 and 10....kind of....best I can remember and from my recordings of the guy who taught me.



Kevin -> RE: Bulerias Palmas Variations (as requested by Chester) (Feb. 1 2015 22:31:59)

quote:

When I was taught them I was told to forget the 12 beat pattern

I was told learn 12 beat first then branch out. It's all about experience. One dancer says this, one singer says that. Ultimately you learn for the rest of your life.



Leñador -> RE: Bulerias Palmas Variations (as requested by Chester) (Feb. 2 2015 1:52:45)

Yeah, I was taught that too at first but for cante accompanyment you can't be locked into that 12. My teacher(and cantaores in general) like to hang out for 6 beats or repeat a half compas so at some point you have to let go of the 12 a bit. He likes to keep me on my toes so at lessons he does it a lot to make sure I'm not stuck on just following a pattern and can make real time decisions.



jmb -> RE: Bulerias Palmas Variations (as requested by Chester) (Feb. 2 2015 7:51:40)

Great video, Leñador. Really interesting.

'Al golpe' is a common patter between gypsies and many common flamenco people in Madrid.

1 2 3 4 5 6

You can also find this pattern in several guitar 'methods'. Note the ambiguity of 4 and 5 beats. On them you can hear several ways to do it. Singings usually uses 6 as starting point but also 1.

There ar many variatios of this pattern. But I think that

Gypsy womens from 'las 3000' is Seville. They clap also some Tangos.



Some little girls in Jeréz with a pretty simplified pattern..



A really good video where 'El Torombo' explains the importance of palmas in bulerías and tangos. They use this patern too. (the video is spoken in a hard andalusian Spanish and with a very informal style). This video is really good because he explains how very small claps on this patern generates a deep variation in the sound. In bulerías, despite its so messy appearance, few subtle changes on time (including volume) generates great differences in beat percepcion.



For my experience in groups of common people clapping. It is a good and intuitive way to understand any bulería. You can find easily a mental matching of this pattern in the rest of bulerias patterns.

thanks again for the video Leñador.



Leñador -> RE: Bulerias Palmas Variations (as requested by Chester) (Feb. 2 2015 13:47:45)

Hey thank you jmb, absolutely great videos!



Ricardo -> RE: Bulerias Palmas Variations (as requested by Chester) (Feb. 8 2015 3:37:40)

While all is good I guess...I feel there is general underestimation and lack of significance to what you guys are calling "seguido" pattern. Basically, I feel it is ALL about THAT and the rest are just variations on or around that and you need someone doing that, plus you are missing the basic contra pattern that complements that one normally. Also missing the foot, which can happen more than just on 12 or 6, though that is a way to teach beginners.

Against your seguido pattern you would need something like this:

Clap (fairly loud) on 12 w/foot
rest on 1.
clap fairly loud between 1 and 2 (& in other words)
rest on 2 but do the foot.
CLAP loud on 3
clap soft on 4 with foot.
clap soft on 5.

repeat starting on 6 but exactly the same....or every once in while throw in some extra contras to distinguish 10 from 4.

Also missing is a very basic Jaleo pattern that works in a lot of buleria contexts...that is:
12...&2...&4 5..repeat (6...&8...&10 11). I would say that is where your "al gope" might be deriving from.

Lastly I find foot is important for feel, and for example, your antiguo pattern foot can also work (more effectively IMO), 12,2,4, etc.

Ricardo



Leñador -> RE: Bulerias Palmas Variations (as requested by Chester) (Feb. 8 2015 6:05:57)

Ah yeah, a lot of that sounds familiar! [:D]
What I posted is kind of what I could retain from what was supposed to be a guitar lesson and I asked a question about palmas. It is something I'm more curious about. Lately I've spent a lot more time trying to knock on tables and sing and get the big picture of things. It's actually made flamenco a lot more fun for an amateur then just being pissed at myself about my picado. Lol
Thanks Ricardo.



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