Any self taught Flamenco guitar builder here? (Full Version)

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hopkinWFG -> Any self taught Flamenco guitar builder here? (Sep. 27 2014 14:36:31)

wonder if there are any DIY self taught flamenco guitar builder?

if i were to get interested in guitar building would it be more of an easy task to get an acoustic guitar kit to start with? from there is there any relation to classical and flamenco guitar building?



Jim Kirby -> RE: Any self taught Flamenco guitar builder here? (Sep. 29 2014 12:35:50)

Sort of self taught here - I did spend a week with a good teacher building a steel string, after having made one myself from a "serviced" Martin kit. This was all back before I built any classical or flamenco guitars. I've never had any specific instruction there beyond books, videos and the internet.

A serviced kit can be a big help as it takes care of a lot of the details that a casual woodworker isn't set up to do, like bending sides, inlaying a rosette, etc. You need to choose whether you want to go that route, or do it all yourself. (An unserviced kit is basically just a box of parts as you would buy them indivdually, but selected so that you have everything you need.)

Classical and flamenco guitars are, at first glance, the same. The differences lie in the details - how thick is the top, how is it braced, string height at bridge and 12th fret, etc.
Basic construction procedures don't really differ, so a classical guitar book or video lesson is still appropriate.



hopkinWFG -> RE: Any self taught Flamenco guitar builder here? (Sep. 30 2014 13:29:45)

hi Jim thanks as i have never work on wood before and i would like to keep my cost low for initial start... i may want to try doing a guitar neck from wood block.. i may also not be able to invest in straight cutting or sanding machines.. do you think it be able to apprehend good quality neck by only getting few cheap chisel, files, saw, caliper a work bench and a decent vice clamp?



Jim Kirby -> RE: Any self taught Flamenco guitar builder here? (Sep. 30 2014 19:07:08)

Well, let's see what I use to build a neck:

start with 1" by 3" by 36" blank. I make the cut for a scarf joint with a bandsaw, but, lacking that, I'd pull out my Japanese ryoba.

plane the mating surface on the scarf joint - block plane (I use an old Stanley #3 instead - good find).

clamps for gluing up scarf, heel stack - need some decent C clamps or small bar clamps

I'm starting to do wedge slots to attach neck to sides, but before that I cut side-thickness slots using the ryoba for first cut, then drop scraper in slot and cut down again beside it.

Paring chisel to cut rebate on top of heel block to join top to.

Most of neck and heel shaping done with a fairly flat gouge, rasp, and scraper blade.

drill bit to cut ends of head slots, then coping saw to remove waste, clean up slots with paring chisel. Drill tuner holes (do this first, so you don't blow out sides of head slots.) (I do this all now using the LMI headstock jig).

So, what did I suggest at minimum, and what do I really use:

paring chisel
gouge
rasp (I've got some Auriou rasps - really nice. Also some nice auto-body files)
scraper
two drill bits (I cut the head slots using the LMI jig and a plunge router)
coping saw
ryoba (my larger slots for wedges are now done using a table saw jig, scarf
joint cut done on bandsaw.)
block plane (I use a #3 instead
clamps (more clamps!)

You can see how the tool pile starts to build up quickly - don't think building your own is a route to saving money



estebanana -> RE: Any self taught Flamenco guitar builder here? (Oct. 1 2014 0:05:37)

quote:

hi Jim thanks as i have never work on wood before and i would like to keep my cost low for initial start... i may want to try doing a guitar neck from wood block.. i may also not be able to invest in straight cutting or sanding machines.. do you think it be able to apprehend good quality neck by only getting few cheap chisel, files, saw, caliper a work bench and a decent vice clamp?


Get the book Making Master Guitars by Roy Courtnall, he explains how to make the guitar in the Spanish manner with hand tools.

All luthiers are self taught after a point, everyone learns how to learn. You can do it by yourself. The important thing is to study the basic book about making and ask questions.

The other thing that is helpful is to buy extra wood and don't work out of fear of not being able to do it. If you mess up a process and ruin a piece of wood, take it as a lesson and don't make that same mistake on the next one. You can make a practice neck out of a 2x4 just to get feel for carving the shape.

Courtnalls book, study it, get big a coping saw to cut the heel curve or find a friend with a band saw and buy them lunch to use it for a half an hour to cut out all band saw work you can stage at one time.



Jim Kirby -> RE: Any self taught Flamenco guitar builder here? (Oct. 1 2014 2:36:50)

What Stephen said.

Courtnall is a very good book, although I can't imagine doing some of the operations the way he does. (All books are like that somewhere, though.) Cumpiano and Natelson is also a good introduction, but Courtnall better as a purest classical-type intro.

And yes, build a few necks from 2 by 4s



estebanana -> RE: Any self taught Flamenco guitar builder here? (Oct. 1 2014 12:22:14)

Here is an example of using a scrap wood to study a problem. These are Dragonetti style bass bows made with scrap wood.

Dragonetti was a 19th century virtuoso bass player and he liked this bow design. It has become repopularized through early music performance practice. I am learning to make these bows by making test versions with throw away wood.

I wanted to get a feel for the dimensions and size of the bow and study the curves before I commit to a more expensive wood blank. I never stop trying to learn new things. I want build every thing!


The same thing can be done with a guitar neck to get a feel for it. You can carve the the heel out of a mocked up scrap of fir or pine and learn about the size and feel. You can also try the scarf joint or even the 'Vee' joint that Hauser and Romanillos used.

It's all just careful study of each constituent part and then study of how they fit together. Piece by piece, poco a poco and you learn how to build. Look at some books make a neck or two and ask for feedback on how it looks and if it is shaped right for function. The neck is the pivot point of the Spanish guitar, if you can accomplish the neck you can probably make the rest of the guitar. The neck is the one main sub assembly that has the most tricky measurements and joints in one piece.

Figure the neck out and you've basically got a good lead on the rest of it.

















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hopkinWFG -> RE: Any self taught Flamenco guitar builder here? (Oct. 2 2014 15:00:24)

hi Jim and Stephan... thanks for alot for the information needed, really appreciate on the recommendations and starter guide ! yeah i possibly have to buy some videos watch in few times and getting on with the DIY guide book and then start with some cheap wood to work on... ;) have alot of things to get these days i be back on this post again when i got everything at hand till then thanks alot guys !

and Stephan thats really some nice wood work !! your guitar is really nice in a modern way ;)



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