RE: How did you get into flamenco? (Full Version)

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Paul Magnussen -> RE: How did you get into flamenco? (Aug. 21 2014 15:30:59)

quote:

I had mentioned that a few months ago, at a library sale, I got a few choice gems, including Trotter's Escudero book. Haven't really studied it, but the rhythms look a little white-washed to me.


Can you be more specific? I looks pretty accurate to me.

quote:

Also picked up a Falseta Anthology from the Bold Strummer, by a Ray Mitchell (this one from 1990).


Probably a reprint: I reviewed that in Guitar in 1982. Ray was a British aficionado who died a few years ago.

The trouble with the Anthology (as I recall) was that he didn’t know how to indicate the timing properly; so that if you didn’t know the original recordings, you were screwed.

Incidentally, The Bold Strummer has apparently closed down. What’s happening to the books they published, I’m trying to find out.



Mark2 -> RE: How did you get into flamenco? (Aug. 21 2014 16:08:15)

I have the Trotter book too-the only thing I remember learning was the Rondena and Impetu, I thought it was accurate.

I had a gig with an Italian recording artist and after coming back from Italy in 1982, we started a band in San Francisco. We worked really hard and got some label interest but went nowhere. We were having dinner at my house one night and I put on a Sabicas record. We realized that that was the music we should be playing. Next day I looked in the phone book for a flamenco teacher and the only one was Mariano Cordoba. I called him and he said he was pretty busy for the next month but if I was in a hurry, he could see me tomorrow. I said I was in a hurry. First lesson, he has me doing chromatic scales with my thumb. My thumb died in a minute or so and I said "I don't have it" He says" I know you don't have it" I studied with him for five years, probably too long but he was such a joy to be around. I thought learning flamenco was simply a matter of learning a new style of guitar playing. No problem, I'd already learned a few styles to a fair level. Unfortunately, I was very wrong.



Paul Magnussen -> RE: How did you get into flamenco? (Aug. 21 2014 16:51:09)

quote:

I remember learning was the Rondena and Impetu


Impetu isn’t in the Trotter book:

1) Soleares «Piropo a la soleá» (from Mario Escudero)
2) Sevillanas Escudero (from Mario Escudero)
3) Guajiras «para Amina» (from Mario Escudero)
4) Zapateado «Repiqueteos flamencos» (from Mario Escudero)
5) Verdiales «Caminos malagueños» (from Fiesta Flamenca)
6) Granadinas «Falseta al bordón» (from Mario Escudero)
7) Seguiriya «Romance Gitano» (from Mario Escudero)
8) Rondeña «Homenaje a Ramón Montoya» (from Fiesta Flamenca)

Are you getting mixed up with something else?



Mark2 -> RE: How did you get into flamenco? (Aug. 21 2014 18:39:07)

I must have the Impetu transcription from somewhere else.......maybe one of those Japanese books.



Paul Magnussen -> RE: How did you get into flamenco? (Aug. 21 2014 19:36:14)

Yep, it’s in Flamenco, Vol. II.



Miguel de Maria -> RE: How did you get into flamenco? (Aug. 22 2014 13:48:18)

Paul, you're probably right, I only just glanced at it. The rhythms seemed to be a little too uniform and clean looking to be real. But I didn't compare them to recordings or anything; it was just a general impression.



RobJe -> RE: How did you get into flamenco? (Aug. 22 2014 15:49:09)

My experience in London overlaps Paul’s but I don’t think that we ever met unless it was at an informal Pepe Martinez concert somewhere. I do remember reading some of the stuff he wrote about flamenco.

I was at university in Southampton at the end of the 1950’s and learnt a bit about flamenco from a researcher who had formerly studied in London. I used the Ivor Mairants book to improve my playing but knew that I needed a teacher. You couldn’t even buy classical guitar strings in Southampton in those days!

I continued my academic studies in London in 1961 and went to the famous Troubadour bar to listen to flamenco and find a teacher. I wrote down the telephone number of a “flamenco guitar teacher” and made an appointment to visit a flat in Notting Hill Gate finding myself face-to-face with Aziz Balouch “The Indian who sings flamenco, disciple of Marchena” https://www.flamenco-world.com/magazine/about/aziz_balouch/balouch.htm He listened to me play, confessed that he could only teach absolute beginners and sent me to Michael Leigh who had studied with Pepe Martinez. Michael had taped copies of Ramon Montoya and Nino Ricardo which he gave me but they were stolen from my student room along with my Grundig reel-to-reel.

Michael, played at various venues in London including the Troubadour and also for Tani Morena. One day he announced that that had new “boy” who was “quite good” – Paco Pena. Paco played for several stage shows for Tani including one at the Gaiety Theatre in Ireland. When Paco went back to Spain for a period I joined my teacher in Tani’s company – a lucky break. I got to meet some interesting people in her programme of “classical, regional and flamenco dance” – several classical guitarists including David Russell, pianists including Christine Croshaw and cellists including Steven Isserlis.

I have more memories of the singers Juan Garcia, Antonio Gomez (Antonio Sevilla) and Fernando Reyes. I remember that Fernando married his English girlfriend and got a new passport the day before we set off for a week in the Manoel Theatre in Malta because he was worried that the Immigration authorities might not let him back otherwise.

Rob



Richard Jernigan -> RE: How did you get into flamenco? (Aug. 22 2014 16:01:57)

There are two editions of the Trotter/Freeman Escudero transcriptions. One is more accurate than the other. I'm not sure either one was absolutely note perfect. It's been a long time since I looked at either.

But the transcriptions in both editions are pretty accurate reflections of Escudero's playing. On records at least, his compás is pretty straightforward, not as syncopated as Sabicas.

Sabicas's tempo was more elastic. No sudden changes of speed as is more common these days, but gradual accelerandos and decelerandos. To me they always seemed danceable, perhaps a result of his long partnership with Carmen Amaya.

RNJ



mark74 -> RE: How did you get into flamenco? (Aug. 24 2014 23:01:41)

quote:

al demiola and paco de lucia thingy
quarter of there people here


this



SephardRick -> RE: How did you get into flamenco? (Aug. 25 2014 20:06:35)

My introduction was to Flamenco was at a very small concert in college by Classical guitarist, Christopher Parkening.

Although his classical material presentation was top tier. What was memorable was his flamenco performance. It was an object lesson. I was so stunned by his playing! How could an acoustic guitar sound so good and be so expressive? The impression never left me.



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